MPQ 12th Anniversary Celebrations

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Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,296 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Read_Only said:
    So if they level the playing field with Nerfs we can finally get rid of the god boost too right?

    Actually I'm wrong. They already are getting rid of the "god boost!"

    Lower tier characters have gotten weekly +100lvl boosts forever, and nobody ever cared about that. Complaints about the "god boost" only started when 5* (the top tier) got added to the boost rotation.

    Well, 5* won't be the top tier anymore! And 6* certainly won't get a boost rotation anytime soon. So the "god boost" officially ends when the first 6* is released.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,795 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Read_Only said:
    So if they level the playing field with Nerfs we can finally get rid of the god boost too right?

    I hope they never get rid of them, god boosts are the best part of the game. That was the thing I missed most when I left 4 star land and finally took the plunge and champed my 5 stars.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,296 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Just using him as an example. Fill in "Rocket" with any strong character you choose.

    But here lies the problem with relying on the usage statistics. Rocket doesn’t win you the match but his one trick puts you on the way. Unless the opposition has Chasm. Then he is truly useless. We need to be looking at the characters who actually win matches and are still dominant if match conditions change. From this perspective 4* Juggs suffers a bit without strike tiles or whatever boosting him. This isn’t an easy round of nerfs for the Devs and I fear they may get it wrong.

    Balancing is never easy, but if (again, an example) Rocket is being used that much, then it's because he's winning matches. There are some characters that are used for other reasons. Essentials, daily play, or 3* or 5* Deadpool would have to be accounted for, but that's not that difficult.

    The answer is to stop doing rebalances the way they've done them. Small adjustments, frequently. If Rocket is the best guy (and again, example) then have him make 1 less strike tile, see what happens. If nothing changes, adjust again. If changing Rocket kills Juggernaut, adjust Juggernaut.

    Balancing is hard work. But the rewards are huge. You solve the dilution problem. You let people play with their favorite characters. You create an interesting and diverse metagame.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,854 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Just using him as an example. Fill in "Rocket" with any strong character you choose.

    But here lies the problem with relying on the usage statistics. Rocket doesn’t win you the match but his one trick puts you on the way. Unless the opposition has Chasm. Then he is truly useless. We need to be looking at the characters who actually win matches and are still dominant if match conditions change. From this perspective 4* Juggs suffers a bit without strike tiles or whatever boosting him. This isn’t an easy round of nerfs for the Devs and I fear they may get it wrong.

    Balancing is never easy, but if (again, an example) Rocket is being used that much, then it's because he's winning matches. There are some characters that are used for other reasons. Essentials, daily play, or 3* or 5* Deadpool would have to be accounted for, but that's not that difficult.

    The answer is to stop doing rebalances the way they've done them. Small adjustments, frequently. If Rocket is the best guy (and again, example) then have him make 1 less strike tile, see what happens. If nothing changes, adjust again. If changing Rocket kills Juggernaut, adjust Juggernaut.

    Balancing is hard work. But the rewards are huge. You solve the dilution problem. You let people play with their favorite characters. You create an interesting and diverse metagame.

    The problem is checking usage won't help with what you want to do.

    Lets say they nerfed Rocket into oblivion (changed his yellow to make just 1 strike). If the Devs check usage in say 3 months (a reasonable time frame?) they aren't going to find much change at all in the lower tiers. The reason is new players who focused on Rocket (at say the expense of Drax) will still have a 270+ Rocket and a Drax with maybe 3-4 covers. They STILL have to use Rocket because that's all they have (well along with Polaris but you get the idea). It would take a year or more before you'd see meaningful usage changes in the lower tiers (newer players). On the other hand, if they instead looked at rosters and character levels they'd see changes immediately (Rocket not favored, no more adding levels to Rocket and so on). That's why I said usage is meaningless in the lower tiers (4 and below) because players don't have filled out and balanced rosters character wise. Even in the 5 star tier and especially at the 550 level I bet you'd find the 1A5s have enormous usage due to god boosts and so it would look like they need to nerf those characters.

    The other unstated thing about doing these rebalances is what are they aimed at? Is it PvP exclusively? PvE exclusively, a mixture (50/50, 75/25 etc). For example I bet most players would be OK with a targeted nerf of Rocket that say cut his number of initial strikes and reduced their power in PvP only.

    KGB

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,854 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Yet no one or next to no one uses Polaris in 5 star PvP unless she's god boosted. So if balancing is about PvP, Polaris gets next to no usage there once you finish with the 4 star tier.

    And if balancing is about PvE, why does anyone care that much about balance since the only characters that really matter are the fastest speed teams and I suppose any winfinites. I mean making peoples PvE life worse is not going to go over well at all.

    Finally, if what EB mentioned in this thread (or another) that Darkveil + Kang is a turn 0 winfinte against even 6 stars with 10 million health, then technically isn't EVERY character other than these 2 under powered?

    KGB

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 6,504 Chairperson of the Boards

    Polaris is used a lot, ascended, in PvP. Disproportionately to most 4s who aren’t Juggernaut for sure. She and Thor are an auto-win mostly - easily dispatched on defense so they can’t sit on top like Jugg Sam can. Take out Pol and you’re all set.

    Kangveil isn’t great on defense because you can work around them pretty easily right now. So most won’t use them except maybe as a lark or a hop or something. The math might change a bit if you’re dealing with health pools that other characters can’t easily get past.

    It would be nice if they had a list of planned nerfs and buffs since they obviously have some kind of plan and the meta has been very stable for well over 7 months now. Even if the details weren’t there yet it would be player-friendly to give us a heads up to maybe not target, say, Polaris.

    The communication and navigation of a sudden upending of power and meta and play style and economy should be managed with as much transparency as possible.

    The past couple of months have been abysmal for community-dev relationship and they should be working hard to repair that, not rah-rah-ing their way through this.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,296 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Yet no one or next to no one uses Polaris in 5 star PvP unless she's god boosted. So if balancing is about PvP, Polaris gets next to no usage there once you finish with the 4 star tier.

    And if balancing is about PvE, why does anyone care that much about balance since the only characters that really matter are the fastest speed teams and I suppose any winfinites. I mean making peoples PvE life worse is not going to go over well at all.

    Finally, if what EB mentioned in this thread (or another) that Darkveil + Kang is a turn 0 winfinte against even 6 stars with 10 million health, then technically isn't EVERY character other than these 2 under powered?

    KGB

    5* Polaris/m'Thor is one of the most common teams in my matchmaking range.

    I agree that they should fix the instant win stuff first. But there's no reason for them to stop there.

    I also don't see how making PvE take longer is making everyone's "life worse." Of course there are some people who only want to play MPQ for a few seconds every day, and get maximum rewards for this. I think the devs should be catering to players who enjoy playing the game, not those who just want to get it over with.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,296 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Just using him as an example. Fill in "Rocket" with any strong character you choose.

    But here lies the problem with relying on the usage statistics. Rocket doesn’t win you the match but his one trick puts you on the way. Unless the opposition has Chasm. Then he is truly useless. We need to be looking at the characters who actually win matches and are still dominant if match conditions change. From this perspective 4* Juggs suffers a bit without strike tiles or whatever boosting him. This isn’t an easy round of nerfs for the Devs and I fear they may get it wrong.

    Balancing is never easy, but if (again, an example) Rocket is being used that much, then it's because he's winning matches. There are some characters that are used for other reasons. Essentials, daily play, or 3* or 5* Deadpool would have to be accounted for, but that's not that difficult.

    The answer is to stop doing rebalances the way they've done them. Small adjustments, frequently. If Rocket is the best guy (and again, example) then have him make 1 less strike tile, see what happens. If nothing changes, adjust again. If changing Rocket kills Juggernaut, adjust Juggernaut.

    Balancing is hard work. But the rewards are huge. You solve the dilution problem. You let people play with their favorite characters. You create an interesting and diverse metagame.

    The problem is checking usage won't help with what you want to do.

    Lets say they nerfed Rocket into oblivion (changed his yellow to make just 1 strike). If the Devs check usage in say 3 months (a reasonable time frame?) they aren't going to find much change at all in the lower tiers. The reason is new players who focused on Rocket (at say the expense of Drax) will still have a 270+ Rocket and a Drax with maybe 3-4 covers. They STILL have to use Rocket because that's all they have (well along with Polaris but you get the idea). It would take a year or more before you'd see meaningful usage changes in the lower tiers (newer players). On the other hand, if they instead looked at rosters and character levels they'd see changes immediately (Rocket not favored, no more adding levels to Rocket and so on). That's why I said usage is meaningless in the lower tiers (4 and below) because players don't have filled out and balanced rosters character wise. Even in the 5 star tier and especially at the 550 level I bet you'd find the 1A5s have enormous usage due to god boosts and so it would look like they need to nerf those characters.

    The other unstated thing about doing these rebalances is what are they aimed at? Is it PvP exclusively? PvE exclusively, a mixture (50/50, 75/25 etc). For example I bet most players would be OK with a targeted nerf of Rocket that say cut his number of initial strikes and reduced their power in PvP only.

    KGB

    Players who go all in on one or more overpowered characters always get screwed in the end. We all learn that lesson eventually. Do note that I'm not advocating nerfing anybody "into oblivion."

    If all the 1a5 characters are used at unacceptable rates then they need to be fixed. Like, none of this is uncharted territory. It's not even that complicated.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,777 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @KGB said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Yet no one or next to no one uses Polaris in 5 star PvP unless she's god boosted. So if balancing is about PvP, Polaris gets next to no usage there once you finish with the 4 star tier.

    And if balancing is about PvE, why does anyone care that much about balance since the only characters that really matter are the fastest speed teams and I suppose any winfinites. I mean making peoples PvE life worse is not going to go over well at all.

    Finally, if what EB mentioned in this thread (or another) that Darkveil + Kang is a turn 0 winfinte against even 6 stars with 10 million health, then technically isn't EVERY character other than these 2 under powered?

    KGB

    5* Polaris/m'Thor is one of the most common teams in my matchmaking range.

    I agree that they should fix the instant win stuff first. But there's no reason for them to stop there.

    I also don't see how making PvE take longer is making everyone's "life worse." Of course there are some people who only want to play MPQ for a few seconds every day, and get maximum rewards for this. I think the devs should be catering to players who enjoy playing the game, not those who just want to get it over with.

    Here's what I don't get. You and I are playing in the same arena (i.e. all the meta 5s at 550). Heck you and I are in the same alliance! :-)

    But I see almost zero 5*Polaris/mThor in my matchmaking and when I do, I gladly take them down quickly. They are easy wins. So I'm curious if MMR is more than just "MMR" or if it takes into account the team you are playing at any particular time.

    I am not sure what you are using in PVP right now (and MMR is messed up anyways) but would be curious as I almost never see 5*Polaris/mThor as I go to my 50 wins.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,703 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Yet no one or next to no one uses Polaris in 5 star PvP unless she's god boosted. So if balancing is about PvP, Polaris gets next to no usage there once you finish with the 4 star tier.

    And if balancing is about PvE, why does anyone care that much about balance since the only characters that really matter are the fastest speed teams and I suppose any winfinites. I mean making peoples PvE life worse is not going to go over well at all.

    Finally, if what EB mentioned in this thread (or another) that Darkveil + Kang is a turn 0 winfinte against even 6 stars with 10 million health, then technically isn't EVERY character other than these 2 under powered?

    KGB

    Polaris most definitely is used in 5* PvP. I appreciate that you being soft capped don't see that. When SHIELD SIM is normal her and BRB are everywhere at my MMR (525 highest)

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,296 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @KGB said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Yet no one or next to no one uses Polaris in 5 star PvP unless she's god boosted. So if balancing is about PvP, Polaris gets next to no usage there once you finish with the 4 star tier.

    And if balancing is about PvE, why does anyone care that much about balance since the only characters that really matter are the fastest speed teams and I suppose any winfinites. I mean making peoples PvE life worse is not going to go over well at all.

    Finally, if what EB mentioned in this thread (or another) that Darkveil + Kang is a turn 0 winfinte against even 6 stars with 10 million health, then technically isn't EVERY character other than these 2 under powered?

    KGB

    5* Polaris/m'Thor is one of the most common teams in my matchmaking range.

    I agree that they should fix the instant win stuff first. But there's no reason for them to stop there.

    I also don't see how making PvE take longer is making everyone's "life worse." Of course there are some people who only want to play MPQ for a few seconds every day, and get maximum rewards for this. I think the devs should be catering to players who enjoy playing the game, not those who just want to get it over with.

    Here's what I don't get. You and I are playing in the same arena (i.e. all the meta 5s at 550). Heck you and I are in the same alliance! :-)

    But I see almost zero 5*Polaris/mThor in my matchmaking and when I do, I gladly take them down quickly. They are easy wins. So I'm curious if MMR is more than just "MMR" or if it takes into account the team you are playing at any particular time.

    I am not sure what you are using in PVP right now (and MMR is messed up anyways) but would be curious as I almost never see 5*Polaris/mThor as I go to my 50 wins.

    550 Polaris/550 m'Thor? It's actually a difficult fight if you can't wipe them by turn 1 or 2, a Polaris cascade at that level can easily be 500k damage. Not sure why you're not seeing it -- I don't think you're in S2 and you probably play at a different time than I do.

    Also this was pre-MMR disaster. I still do see them occasionally.

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 1,127 Chairperson of the Boards

    M thor and mephisto or sinister with the battle world support, both rip through polaris like tissue paper

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,296 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThisisClemFandango said:
    M thor and mephisto or sinister with the battle world support, both rip through polaris like tissue paper

    At 550 she's only got 150k health, so it's pretty straightforward to oneshot her turn 0 off support AP.

    It's still a tough fight if you can't kill her fast enough though!

  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,902 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @PiMacleod currently the refreshment cart support is broken...it makes your entire team immune to stun. I don't know if it's permanent or intended, but it's a good support in general so it's worth having. Bring that somewhere on your team and Chasm is like 75% less annoying (plus it works on defense, so it makes it harder for Chasm teams to beat you).

    Unless we're experiencing different things due to unity (which is entirely possible) it does not work on defense. My cart prevents me from being stunned on offense but opponents carts don't stop my chasm.

    This is my experience too.

    And my thoughts were in the realm of "i dont think the Refreshment Cart works as intended"... and besides, should a single support be lone answer against Chasm?

    Also, when people mentioned Rocket... and then mentioned Chasm as a way to neuter Rocket... i couldn't help by smile because THERE HE IS AGAIN! lol.... but hey, Gorr neuters Rocket as well, dont forget. I dont mind Rocket, tbh. Hes a "one trick pony", and even if you dont use Chasm or Gorr against him, you can bring Polaris and turn his strength against him! Or bring any character that targets enemy strikes, with appropriate starting AP boosts/supports, and just deal with them.

    Anywho... ill go back to waiting for day 4380... 😉

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,703 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @KGB said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I think Rocket is a terrible choice for this argument. Once the board is settled and his strikes are there, he is basically useless thereafter. The only way to nerf him and Groot are the strikes and that makes them useless. Sorry people- the poster child has to be Polaris because how can it not be? She can at least be nerfed but remain useful.

    Yet no one or next to no one uses Polaris in 5 star PvP unless she's god boosted. So if balancing is about PvP, Polaris gets next to no usage there once you finish with the 4 star tier.

    And if balancing is about PvE, why does anyone care that much about balance since the only characters that really matter are the fastest speed teams and I suppose any winfinites. I mean making peoples PvE life worse is not going to go over well at all.

    Finally, if what EB mentioned in this thread (or another) that Darkveil + Kang is a turn 0 winfinte against even 6 stars with 10 million health, then technically isn't EVERY character other than these 2 under powered?

    KGB

    5* Polaris/m'Thor is one of the most common teams in my matchmaking range.

    I agree that they should fix the instant win stuff first. But there's no reason for them to stop there.

    I also don't see how making PvE take longer is making everyone's "life worse." Of course there are some people who only want to play MPQ for a few seconds every day, and get maximum rewards for this. I think the devs should be catering to players who enjoy playing the game, not those who just want to get it over with.

    I have no idea how you can't see how making PvE take longer wouldn't make people's life worse. I don't know your personal real life situation (retired with endless free time, busy family life with kids, single living in parents basement/alone with free time etc) but I imagine I am not the only person with a family life who plays MPQ. If I get 1 hr total a day to play (either consecutively or 2 1/2 hr sessions or whatever adds to 1 hr) then making PvE take longer is going to make my life (my MPQ life obviously) worse. That's because I'll be able to get a lot less done (fewer battles) in my allotted time for MPQ. It would be like some politician saying that dropping the speed limit on the freeway from 60 MPH (100 KPH) to 50 MPH (80 KPH) which would increase commute times wouldn't make anyones 'life worse'. Of course it would make lives worse and rightly cause an uproar.

    KGB

    P.S. I had no idea MThor/Polaris even existed in 5 star PvP. This board is filled with threads about Jugger/Sam and other combos (including other MThor combos) but no one mentions those 2 so I figured they didn't get any real play in 5 star PvP since the common complaint is lack of diverse teams.

    I've done 50+ SHIELD Sim wins and so have a screen filled with red losses now.

    Lvl 466 Polaris/550 Jane/469 BRB is one, another Polaris/Jane team, two Sam/Juggs teams, 1 Frankie Nova team.

    So yeah, she is still around. Also bear in mind that 5* play is nowhere near the vast majority of use of characters, so what will really matter is how prevalent she is at 4* and below. Hint: My wife and son started playing MPQ this year and both have a champed Polaris (my wife only other champ 4 is X-Force Wolvie).

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,854 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273

    Shield Sim is an entirely different animal. Not sure they should do a lot of meaningful balancing around what happens there vs normal pick 2 PvP.

    Your wife and son are a good example of why you can't use usage rates. With only champed Polaris of course their usage rate of Polaris is going to be 100%. It's all they've got. If they nerf her at 4 star level (note they could choose just to nerf the 5 star ascended version) it's going to make their experience worse and depending on how much worse could drive them from the game.

    KGB

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,703 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:
    @DAZ0273

    Shield Sim is an entirely different animal. Not sure they should do a lot of meaningful balancing around what happens there vs normal pick 2 PvP.

    Your wife and son are a good example of why you can't use usage rates. With only champed Polaris of course their usage rate of Polaris is going to be 100%. It's all they've got. If they nerf her at 4 star level (note they could choose just to nerf the 5 star ascended version) it's going to make their experience worse and depending on how much worse could drive them from the game.

    KGB

    It isn't all they have. My wife has multiple 5* and actually a fully covered 5* Winter Soldier. Not sure about the kid. Polaris is still their best character.

    And surely SHIELD Sim normally runs the longest out of all season events without boost levels so use there counts a lot?

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,795 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 1 October 2025, 13:48

    I saw a good amount of Polaris/mthor in pvp before the broken MMR playing slice 2 pvp usually joining with about a day and a half left in the event. I mostly saw them at the beginning of my climb at low points. I would mostly see the same players running it and I would always jump on those teams and they would never retaliate. My thought is that these are probably players that don’t care much about pvp. They use Polaris/thor because they know it works and don’t want to think about a pvp team, just hit whatever goal they have in pvp then forget about it.

    Similarly with Entrails style of joining the bracket when it's almost over, I assume these players choose polaris/thor because they only have a short time to get some wins and they know this is a fast combo and don't have time to experiment with the boost list.

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