Grand Experiment 2: Treading Water in the SCL 10 Post-Shardpocalypse

1…4546485051…71

Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    Average 5* level is actually the one metric I do keep track of, since that's my roster goal. Mine is 512 right now (not counting duplicates or Wong). The recent feeder changes pushed it up by 10 or 15, I think

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    You asked awhile back how I felt about the buffs they've been doing and I said I'd need a boost week to figure it out. So, Silver Surfer is boosted this week and he's REALLY REALLY GOOD now.

    I did some pretty extensive testing against 550 Chasm and he was basically a speed bump.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    Even baby champed, Silver Surfer has been pretty effective this boost week. It's largely been iHulk/SS for me and most of my MMR opponents.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    I didn't see him very much, because the folks in my matchmaking range all use the meta guys. I used hulk and surfer though, and they work well together. Surfer's crazy healing offsets boosted hulk's crazy friendly damage. Anyway I'd say it's a successful buff. Before this, Surfer at 672 was unusable (seriously).

    Edit: to expand a bit, 672 Surfer should trivially stomp 550 Chasm because a difference of 120 levels should be very significant, regardless of character. 672 anybody should trivially stomp 550 anybody, and the biggest problem with the 5* tier is that this still isn't true.

    I'd feel the same way about it if I was trying to beat 672 Chasm using 550 Surfer -- I should lose that match every single time.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,741 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    I'd feel the same way about it if I was trying to beat 672 Chasm using 550 Surfer -- I should lose that match every single time.

    I disagree with that reasoning. If so, you could never punch up in CL10 for example against 550 enemies with Shang or a host of other characters like BRB/Polaris etc (I routinely win the challenge node with L350 characters vs 500+s).

    If you are just talking about straight match / power damage then yeah, one should beat the other handily. But cases like Shang who can achieve VERY high match damage boost or a stunner like Polaris etc that can allow the weaker character to win the battle when properly played.

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    I suppose I should rephrase that slightly -- I don't believe you should be able to repeatedly, trivially punch 120 levels up, in PvP or PvE.

    I think it's ok for you to have a chance but it should be an extremely difficult fight that requires much greater than normal match-3 skill, luck, boosts, teamups, or all of the above to win.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    Actually, I'm curious how far this should extend down. If players should be able to trivially "punch up" by 120 or more levels, and you're running lvl350 4*, do you often lose to 3* teams in PvP? Would you feel good if you were losing to 1* or 2* teams?

    Should every player, from day 1 of playing, be able to clear CL10, or should it be too hard for, say, 1* rosters?

    If they don't give some incentive to level your guys up, you end up with softcappers exploiting scaling mechanics to win everything in "easy mode."

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    What would you say is the correct matchup delta users should expect to see in PVP? If I have a 450 surfer boosted to 560, should I be seeing 650 characters in my MMR? If that’s all I’m getting fed to fight I’d hope I at least had a chance to win, maybe not walk all over them though. At least in PVE you self select enemy level.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm not sure. Does the game show you 650s now? In general they do an ok job of hiding fights you have no hope of winning. I've heard that when I was running dual 672s I was totally invisible to 550 players, which was annoying (I like being attacked so I can fight retal wars).

    What I was really getting at is that "punching up" doesn't feel as great when you're the one who's being punched. If you're running 450s would you expect to lose to 4* teams? Shouldn't your 560 be a tough fight for unboosted 5*?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    Actually, I'm curious how far this should extend down. If players should be able to trivially "punch up" by 120 or more levels, and you're running lvl350 4*, do you often lose to 3* teams in PvP? Would you feel good if you were losing to 1* or 2* teams?

    Should every player, from day 1 of playing, be able to clear CL10, or should it be too hard for, say, 1* rosters?

    If they don't give some incentive to level your guys up, you end up with softcappers exploiting scaling mechanics to win everything in "easy mode."

    You realize KGB is running 5s at 350, right?
    He IS softcapping.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    I usually don’t see them on my climb until I get up into full progression type points. Right now ~580 is about as high as I can queue, which is a decent gap that isn’t too bad.

    I will say that boosted Moon Knight - still totally unusable. Similarly, Mr sinister seems ill equipped to handle these big Hulks that are coming out to play. I was expecting MK and Hulk to have some synergy with that green outlet, but I think Surfer’s heal is mandatory for survivability.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    SS's buff is one awesome change. Fire his black hole and wait for it to reach one before switching to full health boosted enemy to down them on the next turn. I'm talking about downing a 160-210k health enemy instantly.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    SS's buff is one awesome change. Fire his black hole and wait for it to reach one before switching to full health boosted enemy to down them on the next turn. I'm talking about downing a 160-210k health enemy instantly.

    Instantly, after getting 12 black and waiting 3 turns.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    Fun fact - if you drop a black hole next to an opponent's black hole, it can destroy yours on one of it's procs.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I've had matches against Surfer Jane where she destroyed the black hole right away. Not a smart move to run that team.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,741 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    Actually, I'm curious how far this should extend down. If players should be able to trivially "punch up" by 120 or more levels, and you're running lvl350 4*, do you often lose to 3* teams in PvP? Would you feel good if you were losing to 1* or 2* teams?

    Should every player, from day 1 of playing, be able to clear CL10, or should it be too hard for, say, 1* rosters?

    If they don't give some incentive to level your guys up, you end up with softcappers exploiting scaling mechanics to win everything in "easy mode."

    As noted by Bowgentle, I am softcapping my 5* at 350 where is where my top 4* characters (the meta ones) also are. I typically run the easy to use punch up teams of Grocket/Polaris, BRB/Polaris, Shang/Valk, America+boosted char etc.

    I never get hit by 3* teams and below. I imagine that's because there are no real meta 3* characters capable of punching up like there are in the 4* and 5* tiers.

    Since I am never playing for placement in PvP, I would infinitely rather be hit and lose to 3* teams and below than be hit by dual 550+s (which happens once I break MMR around 750 points) or even the low 500s (which I see in my queue because a 400+ boosted to 500+ still qualifies as something MMR shows me for opponents). The reason being I would get an easy retal to get me to 25 wins (or 900 points whichever happens first).

    KGB

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    While you are making black matches, you are also dealing damage to the other two enemies. Think on the flip side: if SS's black hole is cheap, it means that any 450 Surfer or SS with black cover + (boosted) champed 5* will take down most 672 characters with ease.

    Also, Black Hole is affected by random tiles destruction. Since AI isn't smart, it's normal for his black hole to be destroyed by ally mThor. It's down to reading board and timing your attack for SS if you pairing him with mThor.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Imo the goal to any gacha game is to develop your characters further, and so I did always.
    If there were negative effects on my play experience, I was/ I'm unable to notice them.
    Also developing characters saves time.
    However this game has this type of flexibility and also there aren't difficulty levels making imperative player's growth, or guild battles like other games do.
    So many players are hesitant to make the step to 5* land or ask for advice (I can remember our brand new mod doing it, and lastly I see him near my place in every bracket :D )

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    SS's buff is one awesome change. Fire his black hole and wait for it to reach one before switching to full health boosted enemy to down them on the next turn. I'm talking about downing a 160-210k health enemy instantly.

    Instantly, after getting 12 black and waiting 3 turns.

    I've done several hundred fights with Surfer this week, between PvP and PvE, and haven't cast his black one time.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Actually, I'm curious how far this should extend down. If players should be able to trivially "punch up" by 120 or more levels, and you're running lvl350 4*, do you often lose to 3* teams in PvP? Would you feel good if you were losing to 1* or 2* teams?

    Should every player, from day 1 of playing, be able to clear CL10, or should it be too hard for, say, 1* rosters?

    If they don't give some incentive to level your guys up, you end up with softcappers exploiting scaling mechanics to win everything in "easy mode."

    As noted by Bowgentle, I am softcapping my 5* at 350 where is where my top 4* characters (the meta ones) also are. I typically run the easy to use punch up teams of Grocket/Polaris, BRB/Polaris, Shang/Valk, America+boosted char etc.

    I never get hit by 3* teams and below. I imagine that's because there are no real meta 3* characters capable of punching up like there are in the 4* and 5* tiers.

    Since I am never playing for placement in PvP, I would infinitely rather be hit and lose to 3* teams and below than be hit by dual 550+s (which happens once I break MMR around 750 points) or even the low 500s (which I see in my queue because a 400+ boosted to 500+ still qualifies as something MMR shows me for opponents). The reason being I would get an easy retal to get me to 25 wins (or 900 points whichever happens first).

    KGB

    Well, of course you feel that the ability to punch several hundred levels up is good and necessary! You take advantage of that ability and are immune from it yourself. If you were playing for placement and you lost hundreds of points to 3* teams every event, you'd feel quite differently.

Categories