Grand Experiment 2: Treading Water in the SCL 10 Post-Shardpocalypse

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  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,740 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    I stand by what I wrote.

    I think the only disagreement we have (assuming we have any) is in how much skill/synergy and effort it should require. If you could do it 100% of the time with no effort/skill it would bad. If you could never do it regardless of skill/effort it would also be bad. Since the game has managed to survive for 9+ years it would seem to have a happy medium somewhere between those extremes (minus the short time period when Bishop was broken) that doesn't need to be changed.

    KGB

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Come on.
    Stop talking about "skill" in a match 3 game.
    It's on the level of "match red and purple with Shang, win" skill.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    ?? There is skill and there are synergies, and each time more.
    If you play exclusively with the chahulk team then I concede there is no much skill there.
    There are teams which need high skill and the opposite.
    For all tastes.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Come on.
    Stop talking about "skill" in a match 3 game.
    It's on the level of "match red and purple with Shang, win" skill.

    Or that there's absolutely ANY skill involved in "bring Polaris and Beta Ray Bill, match protect tiles, stunlock the enemy until they're dead." Most of these "punch up" teams just exploit overpowered stunlock or infinite mechanics. If someone beat my 600s with unchamped Abigail Brand and Talos, now that's a skillful player.

    Anyway, we were having a "should" discussion. I think having higher leveled characters should matter more than it currently does, because I think the game should provide greater incentive for players to level characters and/or spend money.

    The other poster seemed to think that having higher leveled characters should matter less than it currently does, or not matter at all, which I think is a bad idea, given the kind of game that this is.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    X-23 is my second totally organic max-champ 4*. My duplicate Lockjaw is now at 271 - why does RNGeezus like that dog so much?

    Juggernaut is at 369; it hasn’t made as much of a difference as I expected on his splash damage (693). I’ll probably move to Rocket next who is at 361. After that, depending on what happens in LL, I might move to Riri to finish up Riri 3.0 and then shift my 5* favorite to Hit Monkey.

    I’ve been spending all cp into Classic and all LTs into latest, attempting to commit to the bit and just pull everything always to stay current.

    Current latest:
    Arcade: 453 with 302 shards.
    Riri: 3/5/4 with 178 shards (4* level 345)
    Hit Monkey: 2/1/2 with 375 shards (domino lvl 331)

    NEW:
    Wong: 0/0/0 with 425

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    For me it was always falcap -- him and Elektra. At least they finally made both feeders.

    Seems like you're well positioned for the next rotation despite spending into classics. Why do you think it's working? The original question was why my dumb way worked for me, and why everyone thought it wasn't replicable...why is it working for you?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    My arcade is 461. Riri 461. HM 464.
    Is it working? Imo TRW is gaining some few classic covers in exchange of leveling more the LLs as I don't think that the cps and LLs income between me and him would be pretty relevant.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    I’m not ready to say it’s working yet, I did have a decent Riri and Domino at launch for these two characters. I think Wong will be where we really see it. But also I think I may have passed the 4*>330 thermocline as well.

    Including max champs I have 82 4* characters at 330 or higher. 15 of those are at 370 now, so essentially those characters are low-champs or unbuilt dupes now moving forward. Another 5 are 368/9, so they don’t have anymore cp to give.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    You have 15 370s now?!? That's what it is...that's what I always thought it was. 4* are the key to the whole thing.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    Yeah I absolutely think it’s a certain volume of 4* in the 330-360 sweet spot that let you stay current. I’ve certainly pulled some classic 5s, but the 20% more shards and 4* rewards are where it’s at I believe.

    330 being where the CP drops go from 5 to 7; seems like that’s a significant difference to a 4* within 20 covers either side of 300 where it ranges from 2-5cp.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    Everybody talks about how many tokens you need to open to get a certain number of 5*, or how classics are so much less optimal because of the dilution, but all the "misses" from token pulls end up being really valuable in aggregate, and classics give you 20% more pulls.

    Also just wait till you get to run a 370 guy as the feature in a PvP. Most of them are pretty solid!

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    The number and level of 4s required for classics only is less now than even when RW started with classics, what with everything being fed and sometimes double fed, retro feeders, hp stores, PvE and PvP (less but there in placement) and boss events. It has never been easier to get covers for 5* characters. You only need 2 or 3 from LL pulls and the characters will be champed eventually, but i would guess it can be done with 75% and around lvl 300.

    As example, with a lvl 300 Domino feeding Hit Monkey you get 2 covers from retro, 2 from boss, 4 from PvE which means you need to pull 5 from LL. Maybe 4 if favorited. So assuming 25 pulls per cover that is 100 to 125 pulls. For Wongers that might go up to 150 considering it is pretty easy to get new 4s to lvl280 before rotation.

    The main problem is still you can’t target meta characters, but frankly, if you want all 5s around the same level switching to classics only earlier is very likely a viable strategy.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards

    You only get 2 from the boss events if you are in an active alliance. I only got one from it, as I have from every boss event since our alliance has only hit alliance completion once ever under the old reward structure.

    I also think that 25 pulls/cover math is a bit optimistic, but I stopped tracking pulls awhile back so I couldn’t give you metrics to say otherwise definitively.

    I absolutely got a huge jumpstart from the retro feeders, and the at-launch feeders similarly have made a huge difference. That’s why I say Wong will be the real test since Abomination is also a new release.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    I’m trying to decide on whether it is in my interest to try and push all my 4* characters to 320 as soon as they are favoritable. I don’t think I’m pulling in enough 4* shards to not get behind on them though; that may prove to be a red herring strategy. I have 46 non-Limited 4* characters under level 300, inclusive of un-covered dupes right now, so I think it is unlikely I could methodically get them there faster than they come out. Maybe just the feeders like Abomination would be worth it.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Ok I'm confused about your end goal now.
    I thought it was to keep champing latest as you go.
    Now you're talking about pushing your 4s above 320, to generate enough pulls to... Keep up with latest.
    Which... You could do by pulling new 5s from Latest with your CP instead of spending on classics.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    The treadmill has no "end" goal, just ways to keep your mind occupied to stop thinking about that stitch in your side. The original goal was to figure out if pulling exclusively from classic could let you keep pace. I think that's been pretty definitively proven at this point, quite awhile ago in fact. then it evolved into "how do i go about champing them all?" and I was working backward to get all the old 5s fully covered.

    Now that that is done, I'm curious what a roster needs to look like to be able to burn CP into Classic for a (relatively) high volume of completely RNG-based rewards that ought to equate to a reasonably even overall roster shape, and if that will output enough targeted shards + LTs to both stay current while growing my general roster average level in the background. Or if it won't, and I'll need to go back to just prioritizing all resources into latest until the three are covered.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Ok, you lost me somewhere in those 51 pages haha.
    Thanks for the tl;dr

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    You only get 2 from the boss events if you are in an active alliance. I only got one from it, as I have from every boss event since our alliance has only hit alliance completion once ever under the old reward structure.

    I also think that 25 pulls/cover math is a bit optimistic, but I stopped tracking pulls awhile back so I couldn’t give you metrics to say otherwise definitively.

    I absolutely got a huge jumpstart from the retro feeders, and the at-launch feeders similarly have made a huge difference. That’s why I say Wong will be the real test since Abomination is also a new release.

    I will happily test if I can do it when Wong rotates in, though it will be the three after Wong that are the most vulnerable. I have all but a couple of meta characters champed anyways. I can probably live without mid-tier characters like Crystal, PX, Onslaught or Elektra being champed for the time being. I will change my mind if iHulk and Wanda end up in the same cp store before then though. Or if a trio equivalent to Kamala, mThor, and Chasm get released.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Ok I'm confused about your end goal now.
    I thought it was to keep champing latest as you go.
    Now you're talking about pushing your 4s above 320, to generate enough pulls to... Keep up with latest.
    Which... You could do by pulling new 5s from Latest with your CP instead of spending on classics.

    You weren't here for the part where some idiot screamed at everyone for months about how classic tokens weren't bad or dumb and having high level old guys and an even roster was good in a post-boost world.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:

    Now that that is done, I'm curious what a roster needs to look like to be able to burn CP into Classic for a (relatively) high volume of completely RNG-based rewards that ought to equate to a reasonably even overall roster shape, and if that will output enough targeted shards + LTs to both stay current while growing my general roster average level in the background.

    You can try and fight RNG god and come with conclusions.
    However it's a totally subjective matter as depends on if you have the capability to grow up the roster through years and more importantly if you value those 20% bonus rewards more than making playable the latest characters.
    Personally, of course, I value the second option the most.
    There are really good characters there, specially mthor and riri, also the Infamous One, for to have or had them bigger than others.

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