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  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,014 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    That's kind of the problem with a one-best-team metagame, ain't it? You can have lots of otherwise good/fun/usable characters who are unplayable because they don't match up against the one best team.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    To be fair, Wong with his CD tile doesn't match up against Jane, either.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,014 Chairperson of the Boards

    Like how we all totally missed on Yellowjacket -- his "permanently go invisible" thing was useless in the Okoye/Hulk meta, where you ate 100,000 aoe per turn, and going invisible did nothing.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you're going for wins, it's fine. You want to invite players to attack you anyway. Wong's beefy strike tiles will help you to speed up matches, and 1/2 Thor can tap onto those strike tiles. If there are cascades, it would be even faster.

  • MrDupaTM
    MrDupaTM Posts: 67 Match Maker
    edited January 2023

    I really love how you all try to come up with all these grandiose plans how to sop Chasm and then adding “well, that is when he doesn’t come with iHulk”, “you’d need some luck with rng” or “Wong’s yellow won’t work due to unpredictability of matches against Chasm+iHulk”.

    Meanwhile, PVP is now a Skip Chasm Simulator.

    Maybe it is time to simply start spamming all posts with “@IceIX Chasm nerf when?”.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    There are already (more) counters available against Chasm/iHulk. People on the nerf train can't adapt or refuse to adapt. It's on them, rather on the dev. :o

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,014 Chairperson of the Boards

    They could make a character with a passive that was literally "make one move: win the game" and people would argue that he wasn't overpowered and shouldn't be nerfed.

    "Don't nerf, give us a counter!"

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    The counter would be "if everyone is downed, revive with full health and win the match."

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    The counter would be to stop playing MPQ: out of sight, out of mind.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    Just a note. Though it isn’t explicitly stated in the rules (though please refer to Rule 7), is inappropriate to notify the developers and community managers because they have a different philosophy of how the game should be run than your own. Clarification of announcements, have at it. Tagging people to complain about characters etc. amounts to harassment so please refrain from doing so.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    When happens all the next points:

    • all you can see after you pass a certain amount of points is that character and that team
    • new characters designed for defensive pvp born DOA because of that character
    • this character nerfs all the characters in game but no one nerfs him( SC, BRB, Colossus, SW,...)
    • generally players don't play pvp for points anymore because of him.

    And devs response is:

    • to rebalance and old character into downing revivers with an absurd expensive power
    • to release another character downing revivers
    • to say they know he is strong but they can't track the number of skips in-game and the issue is tracked into a very limited circle.

    Then I wonder what is the reason of an official forum if denouncing all this also means harassment and another rule broken.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,014 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think the way they handle balance changes has given the idea of balance changes a (deserved) bad reputation. I understand why they do things like this, but I don't think it's ideal.

    Ideally, you'd make frequent, small updates up or down, then monitor metrics to see whether you're "done" or you need to adjust more. You could change the threshold for Chasm's resurrection by 1 void tile, or adjust the amount of healing he gets by 10%, etc, then monitor and fine tune from there. There's no reason that balance changes have to be this huge swing up or down.

    The reason they don't do this is probably that they don't have the time/resources, and also we don't really matter. High level players' experience is (justifiably) low on their list of concerns, and it's easier to just smash a guy down now to make sure you don't have to revisit him later. It's annoying for us but it's completely understandable.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    What's the point of releasing counters when the only counter certain camp of players want is either nerf, something that turn Chasm/iHulk DOA immediately, or a counter that gives them an instant win automatically without thinking? Strategy requires thinking.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,014 Chairperson of the Boards

    Nobody actually wants rock/paper/scissors. Rock/paper/scissors means that if Chasm is rock, some team will be paper, and Chasm won't be able to beat that team.

    All of the theoretical "Chasm counters" that exist right now can potentially beat him when skillfully piloted by a player, but trivially get stomped by him when they're played by the AI. Those are not counters.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    MThor/Riri can do it. I even took down 672 Chasm with my baby champed boosted mThor/Riri.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    @dianetics said:

    show previous quotes

    Agreed he should have just removed the offending portion and referenced the forum rules.

    The rule wasn’t broken imo, but was skirting towards the line and was calling for people to cross it. As for @Bad comments, by all means come post your disapproval of Chasm however often you like. You don’t have to tag people to do it. I modified my original post to clarify that position.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023

    So, the definition of a counter is an AI controlled counter team that can win against player controlled Chasm/iHulk all the time or 99% of the time? If the AI controlled counter team can't do it, then it's not a counter. Is that right?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,014 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    So, the definition of a counter is an AI controlled counter team that can win against player controlled Chasm/iHulk all the time or 99% of the time? If the AI controlled counter team can't do it, then it's not a counter. Is that right?

    If you want a rock/paper/scissors metagame, this is what you're asking for. Otherwise you could just throw rock every time and win every time.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    The AI in MPQ is pretty dumb. A counter team controlled by AI that can beat Chasm/iHulk all the time looks broken. :o

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