***** Magik (Phoenix Five) *****

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  • pestilentpangolin
    pestilentpangolin Posts: 8 Just Dropped In

    @Glockoma said:
    Change my mind:

    5* Magik is disappointing.

    (…and I can’t unsee her left leg ever since it was brought up.)

    I'm glad somebody agrees. It's like they've amputated then run out of prosthetics and stuck on a boiled ham with a boot attached.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    Very disappointing. And she had some potential before the nerf too. She seems rather useless now

  • Mrcl25
    Mrcl25 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler

    I heard from people testing in their sandbox accounts that she's the worst 5* released by BCS so far, and wouldn't be that strong even if they didn't nerf her. That tottaly contradicts what Devpool said about her still being top tier now, and nuts before the nerf, which makes me think that their testing methods are very flawed.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @Mrcl25 said:
    I heard from people testing in their sandbox accounts that she's the worst 5* released by BCS so far, and wouldn't be that strong even if they didn't nerf her. That tottaly contradicts what Devpool said about her still being top tier now, and nuts before the nerf, which makes me think that their testing methods are very flawed.

    I don't think anyone ever claimed she is top tier in any way. In fact the only mention of any unofficial ranking was in this remark, "Magik's current numbers are much more in line with the norm for 5* characters"

  • _TrashPanda
    _TrashPanda Posts: 101 Tile Toppler

    @IceIX Can you please include what her powers/ health/ etc. would be at 550?

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,094 Chairperson of the Boards

    I like her with damage boosters. With okoye/Deathlock or Thorpocalypse. The extra prices of damage hit hard with boosters and a bunch of times in a turn.

  • Mrcl25
    Mrcl25 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler

    @killahKlown said:

    I don't think anyone ever claimed she is top tier in any way. In fact the only mention of any unofficial ranking was in this remark, "Magik's current numbers are much more in line with the norm for 5* characters"


    That's what I was referring to.

  • 4TheChains
    4TheChains Posts: 8 Just Dropped In

    @KGB said:
    @4TheChains

    What you did with her repeater is essentially what Medusa's passive does in 4* land (minus the damage you want every time it's matched/destroyed).

    The problem with what you described is that Okoye exists. Having smaller damage hit more often is just a recipe for Okoye abuse.

    Anyway, who cares if she can't be used against MThor. There are plenty of teams to use vs MThor that you don't need her.

    KGB

    With Okoye in mind, and the lag in creating additional demon tiles, I think with my proposed changes to Magik would make her Black ability real similar to Gorr. Starting with only 1 Demon tile puts her behind Gorr, but her ability to add more Repeaters somewhat quickly should allow her to surpass Gorr in 4-5 turns.

  • 4TheChains
    4TheChains Posts: 8 Just Dropped In

    Truthfully, the simple fact that Magik's Black ability puts Demon repeaters on Red Tiles, and Magik needs Red AP to fire her Red ability, is another clear setback to her design...

    The pre-release nerf is a sad thing to watch, just like with Gamora 5. (Another potentially great character nerfed into oblivion).

    I do agree with one of the earlier posts about missing the opportunity to beef up Riri before she left Latest had most of us seen the actual #s for Magik. Pre-Nerf Magik looked waaayy better, even her Demon repeaters we're considerably exciting when looking at the increased damage boost per Demon tile. Oh well, maybe next time....

  • 4TheChains
    4TheChains Posts: 8 Just Dropped In

    @Mrcl25 said:


    That's what I was referring to.

    As it stands, she is nowhere near a top contender for anything.

  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor

    @4TheChains said:
    Truthfully, the simple fact that Magik's Black ability puts Demon repeaters on Red Tiles, and Magik needs Red AP to fire her Red ability, is another clear setback to her design...

    If you match the red repeaters to gather red AP, more repeaters take their place. How is this a setback?

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    This is the formula to calculate her Limbo Demon damage, if you want to pair her with Emma:

    70+15+(2 * no of red aps) + (70+15+(2 * no of red aps)*no of limbo tiles * 15%)

    Her updated damage stats is dealing 15% bonus damage and her repeater is dealing 2315 damage. Using 5 Demon tiles and 10 red aps, her repeater will be dealing
    2315 * (105% + ((15%x5)*105%))
    = ~6k damage or a total of 6k * 5 = 30k damage every 2 turns.

    Her black power costs 7. +4 black aps or use supports to +3 or 6 black aps at the start of the game and she'll be dealing damage on turn 2. Pre-nerf, with 7 Demon repeaters and 10 red aps, she would be dealing ~180k damage every 2 turns at level 450. After seeing these 180k damage, I understand why her damage was reduced. Not even 550 Okoye+iHulk can reach 180k damage on turn 3.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @4TheChains said:
    Truthfully, the simple fact that Magik's Black ability puts Demon repeaters on Red Tiles, and Magik needs Red AP to fire her Red ability, is another clear setback to her design...

    I think you're missing the whole point of demon tiles. You WANT to match those red repeaters. One, obviously is to gain red AP. But also your repeaters multiply when you match them.

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    Hound, I don't follow your maths.
    2315 * (105% + ((15%x5)*105%)) = 4,235 not 6k

    But why do you start with 70 rather than 100?
    In your example with 10 red ap, Emma will boost by 25% assuming 5 on her red
    ie. 100% + 15% +2%*10 = 125%
    The demon tile boost is then 125% * 5 limbo tiles * 15% = 93.75%
    Total damage per demon = ( 125% + 93.75% ) * 2,315 = 5,064 ie 5k not 6k

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    My bad, I didn't open and close the bracket correctly.

    Magik has PF affiliation, so she gain an additional 15% ability damage boost.

    Emma's ability boost to Magik
    Base: 70%
    PF: 15%
    10 red aps: 20%
    Total: 105%

    Magik's boost to Limbo Demon
    15% per Limbo Demon and 5 used in example = 75%

    Because Emma's boost stacks with Magik's boost, Magik's Limbo Demon is = 153%

    Total Boost = 105+153 = 283%

    Let's use a live example:
    No of red ap = 3
    No of Limbo Demon repeater = 1
    Limbo Demon Damage = 775
    Limbo Demon boost per repeater = 5%
    Actual damage dealt by Limbo Demon = 1553
    Working backwards, 1553/775 = 2 or 100% more damage

    Total boost by Emma = 70+15+6 = 91%
    Magik Limbo Demon boost boosted by Emma = 5 * 1.91 = 9%
    Total boost = 91+9 = 100%

    "Pre-nerf", the Limbo Demon boost was 25% and repeater was dealing 5692 damage.

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    Thanks for explaining.

    So going back to your original calculation, if this is correct, the boost is 283% and therefore the damage per repeater should be 2,315 * 383% = 8,866 (considerably more than 6k)?

    And 5 tiles would be dealing 44k damage per 2 turns, average 22k per turn as they will be phased differently.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,862 Chairperson of the Boards

    The problem is that matching red tiles generally means there will be less red tiles on the board. Her repeaters can only show up on red, so unless you have, say, Sersi, or you've turned on SW purple, you're going to quickly run out of red tiles for her to put the repeaters on. In PvE, goons that place their tiles on red will block her, and so will, say, (very common PvE opponent) Daken, who puts his strike tiles on red.

    I don't think it's fair to assume that she can easily reach the max number of repeater tiles. I also don't think it's fair to evaluate her on her absolute theoretical maximum damage without factoring in the (very low) likelihood of reaching that threshold.

    Magik may have a higher theoretical maximum, but I bet Okoye/Hulk will deal much more damage in practice, because their conditions are far easier to meet.

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    But of course each time one is matched it can delay the damage by a turn as the new demon tile has it's timer reset to 2.
    And requires you to fire black once to increase max demon tiles to more than 3.
    And assumes none are destroyed by match 4/5, mThor, or never even created in the first place because of chasm.
    I think the nerf probably went a bit too far.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    It went too far.
    Emma boosts her a lot? Well, finally emma should give someone a effective boost in P5 affiliation.
    Magik would deal a lot of damage? And what is that compared to a instawin?
    Would be her team a threat? Well, less than the chahulk team.
    Her amount of repeaters are pretty capped.
    With the nerf she is really slow now.

  • 658_2
    658_2 Posts: 235 Tile Toppler
    edited March 2023

    I screwed around with her a little bit in pvp and she’s definitely an offensive juggernaut with Okoye. I swamped a 521 Chasm running with IH and another that was like 516. I was running the loaner with my 512 Okoye and Thor, and full boosts. Did not hit any 550s because I would have lost the loaner enemy turn 1. It’s fairly similar to running Okoye with Gorr. Slower to start than that team but gets even crazier once the demon tiles start getting matched. I think Magik will be a better partner for Okoye than IH, in pve and pvp, because Magik will be much more reliable. Okoye/Gorr/Magik might be ludicrously fast in pve.

    But for me, the best part about Magik is that floating Immortal teams above 1500 in SIM are no longer safe. People are going to be able to put together teams with her that regularly beat Immortals. The last few seasons of SIM, with lots of She Hulks joining the party, were probably the most miserable ones ever.

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