Planar Chaos - feedback regarding new daily event

Solostran

Hey Everyone,

It’s been a few days since we can enjoy the new event, and I have some feedback I’d like to share - both good, and sadly, negative. Brace yourselves, as I expect it to be a long read.

Let’s start with the good:
1. Rewards are good - there’s no argument here, new booster from the newest set and a rare good is hard not to like, and there are regular good rewards as well, that we know from the previous RP event.
2. It’s short - 5 wins, no complaints here, folks with less time to play are happy I suppose.
3. “No ****” - it’s just “win”, no weird objectives, which was quite often a topic of heated discussions.
4. It’s possible to switch PWs during the event - always a win.

Now, about the not so good to bad things:
1. Event is supposedly a mix of PvE and PvP, though it doesn’t look like it - it’s mostly a rehash of opponents known from other events (for me, mostly, BftA), and us “player like” opponents are just named after planeswalkers, it feels all the same to me. To put it simply it’s “BftA grind all day, every day”. And as such, it gets boring pretty fast.
2. Based on the discussions on different Discord servers - it doesn’t seem that event is adjusted for new players or players in lower tiers. Facing platinum-level decks or high HP, powerful mobs like Bolas, while being in Bronze and Silver is just… Well, I don’t envy those folks, as it can feel like the game is actively hostile towards them.
3. The limit of only two losses allowed is just bad - even a good player, with good collection, can slip on opponents like Bolas or Guff, game can crash or lock, and you’re out of the event. RP was much better in that regard, and I’d like to see a higher limit here, at the very least.
4. As mentioned above, the event feels like PvE - and as it’s a daily thing, I expect it to become very stale super fast. Just bring your strongest deck, win, move on. Not enough variation and player input from the other side to keep things interesting in the long run.
5. I would suggest to reconsider PC being focused solely on the newest set - it has its advantages of course, but otherwise I think it limits player options to build collections. If you don’t want to get back to the event with a rotating decks theme, maybe it’s worth skipping some rune rewards, cutting some jewels, and instead adding a regular standard deck as a reward, similar to the one in BftA.

What I miss from Revolving Planeswalk, and would like to return in this new event:
1. If PvP opponents are actual players - in whatever form - please name them. I learned some good player names via RP, learned to recognize them and respect their deckbuilding skills. Being called out by MainLoop on Discord for building an “annoying deck” was fun to hear, being aware of beating some of the top tier players was a nice dopamine shot.
2. RP was a great place to master cards and experiment with decks - it was my go to place (yes, not quick battle, RP) to try new cards and decks, multiple of them, different for each node and test how they work, while gaining a significant amount of XP to level up my account. With PC, I have zero reasons to be engaged in the event past the 5th fight, and due to how the event is structured right now, I don’t even want to risk bringing my weaker/experimental decks.
3. Rotating sets, especially in my early days, helped build the STD collection. As I wrote above, I would like to see it back in some form. I know that you’ve updated some older events to offer different rewards from the standard, but I feel it might be unnecessary
4. I liked different nodes, one for each color - maybe, just maybe, you could expand the available nodes in RP and split them a bit? If all nodes are open from the start, everyone can still participate in the event, and there could be some variety.

On a personal note: RP, despite its different downsides, was my favorite event in the game. I had a comfortable space to test decs, get XP, and try my ideas against other players. While I appreciate the PC in some aspects, I feel like someone took my favorite toy, and that new toy is not yet good enough for me to have the same level of fun with it. And I’m sure the format of Planar Chaos can be improved, for all players to have a better experience with it.

TBronx

I just started an ALT account so I can see what the new player experience is right now. There's a lot I have to say about the overall experience, but I'll keep it just to this event.

There's no way a new player can participate in this unless they've been playing for a few months. The high HP totals for the PVE opponents, limited lives, and crazy cards in their Greg's decks are just too powerful and since this has a high entry fee, new players run the risk of losing crystals instead of gaining anything.

Also, the PVP decks I've seen are crazy Platinum perfect decks that go absolutely ham.

You might want to limit what types of opponents people can face based on what tier they are currently in. We want to attract more new players, not scare them away. This event will definitely be avoided by all noobs for a long time when they start their MTGPQ accounts.

TheBronxGator aka KingMario

Anarchangel

@Solostran said:
Hey Everyone,

It’s been a few days since we can enjoy the new event, and I have some feedback I’d like to share - both good, and sadly, negative. Brace yourselves, as I expect it to be a long read.

Let’s start with the good:
1. Rewards are good - there’s no argument here, new booster from the newest set and a rare good is hard not to like, and there are regular good rewards as well, that we know from the previous RP event.
2. It’s short - 5 wins, no complaints here, folks with less time to play are happy I suppose.
3. “No ****” - it’s just “win”, no weird objectives, which was quite often a topic of heated discussions.
4. It’s possible to switch PWs during the event - always a win.

Now, about the not so good to bad things:
1. Event is supposedly a mix of PvE and PvP, though it doesn’t look like it - it’s mostly a rehash of opponents known from other events (for me, mostly, BftA), and us “player like” opponents are just named after planeswalkers, it feels all the same to me. To put it simply it’s “BftA grind all day, every day”. And as such, it gets boring pretty fast.
2. Based on the discussions on different Discord servers - it doesn’t seem that event is adjusted for new players or players in lower tiers. Facing platinum-level decks or high HP, powerful mobs like Bolas, while being in Bronze and Silver is just… Well, I don’t envy those folks, as it can feel like the game is actively hostile towards them.
3. The limit of only two losses allowed is just bad - even a good player, with good collection, can slip on opponents like Bolas or Guff, game can crash or lock, and you’re out of the event. RP was much better in that regard, and I’d like to see a higher limit here, at the very least.
4. As mentioned above, the event feels like PvE - and as it’s a daily thing, I expect it to become very stale super fast. Just bring your strongest deck, win, move on. Not enough variation and player input from the other side to keep things interesting in the long run.
5. I would suggest to reconsider PC being focused solely on the newest set - it has its advantages of course, but otherwise I think it limits player options to build collections. If you don’t want to get back to the event with a rotating decks theme, maybe it’s worth skipping some rune rewards, cutting some jewels, and instead adding a regular standard deck as a reward, similar to the one in BftA.

What I miss from Revolving Planeswalk, and would like to return in this new event:
1. If PvP opponents are actual players - in whatever form - please name them. I learned some good player names via RP, learned to recognize them and respect their deckbuilding skills. Being called out by MainLoop on Discord for building an “annoying deck” was fun to hear, being aware of beating some of the top tier players was a nice dopamine shot.
2. RP was a great place to master cards and experiment with decks - it was my go to place (yes, not quick battle, RP) to try new cards and decks, multiple of them, different for each node and test how they work, while gaining a significant amount of XP to level up my account. With PC, I have zero reasons to be engaged in the event past the 5th fight, and due to how the event is structured right now, I don’t even want to risk bringing my weaker/experimental decks.
3. Rotating sets, especially in my early days, helped build the STD collection. As I wrote above, I would like to see it back in some form. I know that you’ve updated some older events to offer different rewards from the standard, but I feel it might be unnecessary
4. I liked different nodes, one for each color - maybe, just maybe, you could expand the available nodes in RP and split them a bit? If all nodes are open from the start, everyone can still participate in the event, and there could be some variety.

On a personal note: RP, despite its different downsides, was my favorite event in the game. I had a comfortable space to test decs, get XP, and try my ideas against other players. While I appreciate the PC in some aspects, I feel like someone took my favorite toy, and that new toy is not yet good enough for me to have the same level of fun with it. And I’m sure the format of Planar Chaos can be improved, for all players to have a better experience with it.

I am sure I am not the only player who considered not opining here, as Solostran has said effectively all there is, and nothing that isn't reasoned and relevant.

I know where not speaking and being counted up leads, though, so here's my bump. Hear, hear, Solostran.

ChewableTrash

Well said by all.

I agree with @Solostran

If you keep PC the way it is, consider bringing back RP as legacy and let’s get some packs on rotation.

As more events roll out, others will inevitably be cut back, this is a great chance to allow some of those sets to show up as rewards.

It’s also optional, so if people feel overwhelming, that’s a problem between them and their therapist.

TIMEWARP

I agree. As a more experienced player I don't mind, and actually like, the more challenging design. It's however basically BftA light, and that is not for everyone. For new players especially, this is a too high hurdle. Keep the rewards, keep it as a daily event, but adjust the difficulty to reflect the mastery tiers.
Also: related, the best fix is to add another one or two mastery levels above plat (diamond, legendary)

Janosik

This event does seem mean to new players, doesn't it? The new PW decks are often crammed with super powerful cards like Rakdos Patron of Chaos, Assimilation Aegis or Kylox's Voltstrider, which they'll have difficulty playing against, and the older PvE opponents have very large life totals, generally between 200-400, which can make games a slog. Revolving Planeswalk was not so dangerous to new players. We already have one daily event which is particularly hostile to newbies (Trial of the Planes), so adding another one, rather than just another randomised PvP Standard daily event, does seem a bit mean.

Removing the 'two losses and you're out' system would mean more new players can get to the end of the event, but it would probably still be a slog.

How do I find Planar Chaos, as a veteran? Honestly not too bad at the moment, but I suspect a a daily PvE will get old pretty fast. I like the fact that (at least some of) the new PW opponents can be a real challenge; I lost a game against the Jace Reawakened the other day, and that Dack Fayden deck is a real piece of work: 9 of the best cards in Standard... and also Hell to Pay. These non-BftA PW decks are all new to me, at the moment... but that won't last. After a while I'll recognise them all. I'd much rather play against PvP opponents which include a variety of cards in their decks, and also, brand new cards from the latest sets! Does Greg play any EOE cards in this event? I don't think he does... kind of a shame! The BftA levels are of course all very old, and the new PW decks are all full of power creepy cards from a few sets ago when power creep was at it's height... and that's not going to change going forward, is it. It's true that these new PW decks will give sometimes give me tougher games than totally random PvP opponents, but I'd much rather PvP matchmaking was updated than a handful of new decks with old cards were created.

I also kinda like the fact that playing against the old BftA decks in Standard requires me to play with some decks which require me to deal large amounts of damage to get through those big ol' life totals... I don't usually do this, so it's giving me a bit of variety in the decks that I must play. Again, tho, it's not going to create as much variety as just playing against PvP opponents... and it's not like I had to actually build a new deck, either, I just use the Daxos deck I already had lying around with Elspeth+Porcelain Gallery. I don't, honestly, really take any notice of what's IN those BftA decks, I'm certainly not going to lose against them, but I do need to tailor my own deck in order for the game not to take too long to play.

I suspect metrics will show that engagement is up for Planar Chaos compared to RevP (I'm certainly playing the new one, and rarely if ever played the old one), but the main reason for this will be the relevant prizes (I long since completed the DMU, BRO, and ONE sets that RevP offered as prizes) coupled with having to play fewer games and without objectives.

I have some stuff to say about objectives too but this post is in danger of getting so large and unwieldy it'll never get sent so I'll save that for another time ^_^

ambrosio191

I must be an outlier but I dont consider playing against random PvP opponents as more variety than what this event provides. The rotating opponents in this events gives enough variety that it doesnt feel like PvE to me. There are so many pvp events in this game. It's nice having a persistent pve event to play. My engagement with the game has certainly increased over the last week and a half. I like that we finally have a means of keeping up with the larger sets (in terms of cards), and more frequent releases.

I get that this event is difficult for newer players, but I also feel like not everything needs to cater to them. People have argued for years that the difficulty for veterans is non-existent, and a by product of that is the need to go perfect or not get rank rewards. Yet every time an event has slightly difficult objectives, we complain that new players cant compete and it needs to be easier. I cant think of any other game where a first time player is expected to be able to instantly have access to the entire game like this game does.

fenelope

@ambrosio191 I don't disagree with your point that not everything needs to cater to the new player experience. I do, however, believe that new players should have a reasonable chance to win access to the current booster packs and, right now, Planar Chaos seems to be the main way for a player to win booster packs from the latest set.

One possible way for to mitigate the harshness for low-level players while maintaining the challenge for the veteran elites would be to increase the number of charges for bronze and silver. That would give them a little extra wiggle room towards winning they're comparatively poorer prizes while keeping the risk high for platinum players. Would this sort of thing be technically possible @Magic:PQ Support Team ? Also, are you going to get to April's Q&A anytime soon? It's shamefully overdue.

wraszowixuXuxi

Not sure that I'd say that the amount of losses for platinum should stay the same. Losses can happen from poor luck (even on some of the PvE stuff) as well as experimenting. Considering that once someone is in plat, with a larger collection, that should reasonably be the best time for one to try out experimenting to see what else they have to play with. As it is now, I'm just playing the same deck for both platinum accounts, and close to out of my usual comfort zone (I try to avoid loops myself, but you often have to with this event...).

Basically, I'd say more charges as playable for this event across the board, if the limit can't be removed altogether. That might be enough. If other tiers get an tailored experience of different opponents as well (PvP and/or PvE), even better

colan

The difficulty is too high. I lost after just two turns.
Please change your opponent's card to a standard card as well.

Janosik

@ambrosio191 said:
I get that this event is difficult for newer players, but I also feel like not everything needs to cater to them

There is, of course, absolutely no reason why reason why newbies and veterans should play identical versions of the same events with the same game rules, the same matchmaking, the same opponents...

I don't want all the things I find challenging in the game stripped out of it just so that new players are shielded from that challenge, but I also don't want new players to all quit because they're completely outclassed in too many of their games. There are ways to shield hard challenges from new players while letting veterans experience them!

TheDude1

@Janosik said:

There is, of course, absolutely no reason why reason why newbies and veterans should play identical versions of the same events with the same game rules, the same matchmaking, the same opponents...

What you're describing is... just PvE?

That "of course" is drawing on an awful lot of assumptions for the rest of the statement, primarily that new players must be afforded an easy shot at the most recent card set. There are potential reasons why Webcore would introduce a gold-gated PvE event, but they would clash with the idea that the newest set would also be the easiest to acquire. Specifically:

• PvE allows the toughest deck(s) to be always-present, and if the goal is to have an evergreen challenge in Standard, then updating PvE decks is far more efficient than relying on matchmaking
• Since it's PvE, having fewer participants isn't a strain on matchmaking (I know my recent TotP activity has become very repetitive)
• Events with set-specific rewards (ie Clans of Tarkir, Lost in the Wilds of Eldraine, Creatures of Magic, etc) have been rolled out as a separate thing and have all been free
• Speculating, but this event may be intended as similar to the daily challenges in MTG Arena, while also adjusting for the fact that PQ's win rates are far higher in PvP play?

Whether you find them satisfying is one question, but that's not "absolutely no reason". Keep in mind this is gold-gated just as ToTP and BftA are - I forget which long-ago Q&A, but Webcore has said they wanted to phase out events with a gold entry fee, so bringing one back seems intentional to wall off from the other, more accessible events.

To ambrosio's point, is the purpose of the prize meant to be a reward for a challenge completed, or a hoarded freebie for everyone nominally participating?

NickBKK

Just don’t reduce the rewards please, if you are going to make any changes.