New Character - Nova (Frankie Raye) 5*

MegaBee

@DAZ0273 said:
Nova/Frankie art is quite bad. Not sure why we couldn’t have had a costume based upon her pre-Herald days.

Or even her early herald days like on the cover art they used for her in game.

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
If you don't bring another charged tile generator, AND you don't bring a damage booster, AND you don't bring any AP to start with (from boosts or supports) she's actually pretty mid on the first few turns.

I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this, but the team to fear (and the team that will be 100% of your queue very shortly) is Nova/Immortal Hulk.

While Nova is airborne you can only target Hulk, who can't die. Meanwhile he's going to generate green for her (which he can't spend), so as soon as she lands she'll take off again. If he has the Gamma support this is even worse.

Again, apologies for sharing this. I'm sure somebody else would've figured it out eventually though!

This is one of the funniest teams I've ever run.

JoeHandle

@BriMan2222 said:

@JoeHandle said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@JoeHandle said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Awww, man. Another chibi costume. I thought for sure she would get the Shalla Bal silver surfer from the fantastic 4 movie as an alternate costume.

I don't know which costumes are lamer, chibi or the retro pixels.

A costume that's a different character? Would be odd.

Not really. They've already done it. Loki can become Sylvie, deadpool can become alternate universe lady dp, spider man can become Hornet, Venom can become Ellie Ellison magical girl....

Frankie and Shayla are not variants of the same character, or versions of a character from different ways, etc. They are two completely separate characters from the same universe. Only commonality is they had the same job. Should we have a game construct called "Herald of Galactus" with various skins, all having the same power set? Already have multiple heralds in game, so a bit late.

And Ellie Ellison is a completely different character, from a different universe, who happens to have a symbiote from her universe like venom. Only commonality is that they both have a symbiotie.

Should we have a game construct called "symbiote host" with various skins?

The cats already out of the bag on this. You can nitpick if a different genered character, from a different universe is the same because they share a name, but Ellie is in no way Eddie Brock. They've left the gate open for characters of similar powers having skins of completely different characters, and with the FF movie just coming out, that move would have made perfect sense to me. They chose another lazy alternate art style costume though, so it doesn't really matter.

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Necroko is the Venom symbiote from Earth ... Earth-whateveritis ... cat remains securely bagged. Surprisingly. Consistency is a fool's errand in anything related to comics, this game no different.

If the game was to reduce characters to skins, and Shalla was to be next victim, it would make just as much or more "sense" to be a skin for Norrin. Romantic partners, two sides of a coin. WIthout divided toes and hair ... wIth divided toes and hair. Wheeeee.
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I don't think the chibi costumes are silly or lazy, it's a style, a choice. And the game should have way, WAY more choices, to celebrate the history and diversity of vision in Marvel comics. And sure, make mo' money. And blowup the download / install size. Players would eat it up, as amply demonstrated by other games.

The game has already implemented lore characters as supports, and then later as playable characters. And that's great, gives players ability to use characters in different ways, and have more than 3 on a team, in a fashion. But characters-as-skins would be problematic, as it would create confusion for players ... "How does this team have [CHARACTER] with different powers then mine?" ... ok, not that this game is great about avoiding player confusion!

EDIT to expand on ramble: the problem with the way the game is generating costumes lately is that they are RARELY alternate looks / versions of a character that players care about. The game has many go-to, easy button ways to generate "costumes" ... chromas (some very poorly executed, see the light-blue'n'white FF atrocity lineup), reduced to black'n'white (inked, not colored), "pixel" art, chibi, art ripped from comics ... I'm probably forgetting something. And of these, the chibis are the least lazy; there is different art there, not just painting over or digitally mangling the character's primary art.

As Bri-Man said and illustrated, give (er, sell) us different looks for these characters. See Marvel RIvals, or the old Marvel Heroes ARPG that was canned back in 2016 or '17.* It takes more time for artists, and getting more approvals, probably, but it sure beats the results gained by poor use of the Image > Adjustments menu in Photoshop**
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Other than one part (the most important part, the face) of one pose (the most important pose, the "main" one), Nova's art is great. Playing on Steam, on goofy big monitors, believe me I get an eyeful. And, except for that one face in that one pose, the character looks great. That's just one unfortunate face.
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'* Wasn't canned over costumes ... SFAIK ...

'** I have no knowledge regarding whether anyone involved in production uses Photoshop, just speaking conceptually and sarcastically.

entrailbucket

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
If you don't bring another charged tile generator, AND you don't bring a damage booster, AND you don't bring any AP to start with (from boosts or supports) she's actually pretty mid on the first few turns.

I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this, but the team to fear (and the team that will be 100% of your queue very shortly) is Nova/Immortal Hulk.

While Nova is airborne you can only target Hulk, who can't die. Meanwhile he's going to generate green for her (which he can't spend), so as soon as she lands she'll take off again. If he has the Gamma support this is even worse.

Again, apologies for sharing this. I'm sure somebody else would've figured it out eventually though!

This is one of the funniest teams I've ever run.

I left it up in sim (I think I had Ikaris as the third, with a purple support) and even after the nerf I'm still getting wipes. I haven't played a fight with them since then, but it must be doing something.

bluewolf

All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

Exactly, which makes Nova/Hulk a pretty good pick-2 team, in the vein of Chasm/Hulk (not as good, thankfully). Chasm/Hulk was beatable in a number of ways, it just took forever most of the time, so it ended up being a deterrent.

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
If you don't bring another charged tile generator, AND you don't bring a damage booster, AND you don't bring any AP to start with (from boosts or supports) she's actually pretty mid on the first few turns.

I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this, but the team to fear (and the team that will be 100% of your queue very shortly) is Nova/Immortal Hulk.

While Nova is airborne you can only target Hulk, who can't die. Meanwhile he's going to generate green for her (which he can't spend), so as soon as she lands she'll take off again. If he has the Gamma support this is even worse.

Again, apologies for sharing this. I'm sure somebody else would've figured it out eventually though!

This is one of the funniest teams I've ever run.

I left it up in sim (I think I had Ikaris as the third, with a purple support) and even after the nerf I'm still getting wipes. I haven't played a fight with them since then, but it must be doing something.

I used 4a5 Vulture as a third.

entrailbucket

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
If you don't bring another charged tile generator, AND you don't bring a damage booster, AND you don't bring any AP to start with (from boosts or supports) she's actually pretty mid on the first few turns.

I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this, but the team to fear (and the team that will be 100% of your queue very shortly) is Nova/Immortal Hulk.

While Nova is airborne you can only target Hulk, who can't die. Meanwhile he's going to generate green for her (which he can't spend), so as soon as she lands she'll take off again. If he has the Gamma support this is even worse.

Again, apologies for sharing this. I'm sure somebody else would've figured it out eventually though!

This is one of the funniest teams I've ever run.

I left it up in sim (I think I had Ikaris as the third, with a purple support) and even after the nerf I'm still getting wipes. I haven't played a fight with them since then, but it must be doing something.

I used 4a5 Vulture as a third.

Yeah we talked about this one in chat quite a bit -- he's better on offense, because he generates green for you so you'll never run out. But he's just a little worse on defense because he has an active green, and the AI might choose to use his green over Frankie.

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:

@bluewolf said:
I would note that the Magical Girl Venom was a winner of a costume poll picked by players.

I can't recall who else was in there and whether any other of the choices were a completely different person inside the costume.

Anyway this game's devs often veer towards cutesy and fun choices for characters and costumes; if that's not your taste, I understand; but nonetheless, that's what you should expect to happen more often than not, imo.

I don't mind the costume being cute or silly. I think hell cows ghost costume is hilarious and the little girl venom is fun. I just dislike costumes that are the same exact costume with an art style change.

I want more silly costumes, and much more configuration.

I want MPQ to go full Fortnite, where I can put Wolverine in clown shoes, a pink bathrobe, and a purple mohawk. And give us emotes already!

JoeHandle

@bluewolf said:
All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

"All" the nerf did was reduce three different variables

What a nutty character design, her green power is a whole character in itself, charge tiles, go airborne w/AoE, continue AoE'ing. For 6 measly AP.

A lot of fun, but crazy.

Design creep. WIll have us playing matches in a multiverse of madness!

revskip

@JoeHandle said:

@bluewolf said:
All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

"All" the nerf did was reduce three different variables

What a nutty character design, her green power is a whole character in itself, charge tiles, go airborne w/AoE, continue AoE'ing. For 6 measly AP.

A lot of fun, but crazy.

Design creep. WIll have us playing matches in a multiverse of madness!

I like her much better now that they fixed those three variables. She is still very powerful but can be run down turn 1 pretty easy. The iHulk team is annoying because it is slow, but its slow to use it as well, more of a troll defensive team so I'm sure the "I hate defense" folks won't like it. I'll wait to see some 550s of her before freaking out in either direction.

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
If you don't bring another charged tile generator, AND you don't bring a damage booster, AND you don't bring any AP to start with (from boosts or supports) she's actually pretty mid on the first few turns.

I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this, but the team to fear (and the team that will be 100% of your queue very shortly) is Nova/Immortal Hulk.

While Nova is airborne you can only target Hulk, who can't die. Meanwhile he's going to generate green for her (which he can't spend), so as soon as she lands she'll take off again. If he has the Gamma support this is even worse.

Again, apologies for sharing this. I'm sure somebody else would've figured it out eventually though!

This is one of the funniest teams I've ever run.

I left it up in sim (I think I had Ikaris as the third, with a purple support) and even after the nerf I'm still getting wipes. I haven't played a fight with them since then, but it must be doing something.

I used 4a5 Vulture as a third.

Yeah we talked about this one in chat quite a bit -- he's better on offense, because he generates green for you so you'll never run out. But he's just a little worse on defense because he has an active green, and the AI might choose to use his green over Frankie.

I'm trying your Ikaris team, and it's more swingy but faster since Ikaris does damage while airborne. I like it!

Seph1roth5

@bluewolf said:
All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

Does she steal instead of destroy?

entrailbucket

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
If you don't bring another charged tile generator, AND you don't bring a damage booster, AND you don't bring any AP to start with (from boosts or supports) she's actually pretty mid on the first few turns.

I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this, but the team to fear (and the team that will be 100% of your queue very shortly) is Nova/Immortal Hulk.

While Nova is airborne you can only target Hulk, who can't die. Meanwhile he's going to generate green for her (which he can't spend), so as soon as she lands she'll take off again. If he has the Gamma support this is even worse.

Again, apologies for sharing this. I'm sure somebody else would've figured it out eventually though!

This is one of the funniest teams I've ever run.

I left it up in sim (I think I had Ikaris as the third, with a purple support) and even after the nerf I'm still getting wipes. I haven't played a fight with them since then, but it must be doing something.

I used 4a5 Vulture as a third.

Yeah we talked about this one in chat quite a bit -- he's better on offense, because he generates green for you so you'll never run out. But he's just a little worse on defense because he has an active green, and the AI might choose to use his green over Frankie.

I'm trying your Ikaris team, and it's more swingy but faster since Ikaris does damage while airborne. I like it!

Yeah, you will occasionally see lower level players running 4* Ikaris/Immortal Hulk, and it works pretty well for them, but it's kind of terrible on defense when Ikaris only has 20k HP or whatever.

That one whale everyone always posts has him at 550 though, and hoo boy is that an unpleasant team to fight, especially during the weeks when he's 672. I imagine that player will do very well in sim with 550 Frankie/Ikaris/Hulk.

bluewolf

@Seph1roth5 said:

@bluewolf said:
All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

Does she steal instead of destroy?

Whoops. Destroy.

@JoeHandle said:

@bluewolf said:
All the nerf did was reduce dmg numbers and make nova not-invincible to dmg, and also reduced the ap steal.

Anyway a huge hulk plus a partner who keeps taking off definitely can be annoyance and I could see people retreating out of frustration.

"All" the nerf did was reduce three different variables

What a nutty character design, her green power is a whole character in itself, charge tiles, go airborne w/AoE, continue AoE'ing. For 6 measly AP.

A lot of fun, but crazy.

Design creep. WIll have us playing matches in a multiverse of madness!

By “all” I meant that she didn’t get ruined by the correction (it’s not really a nerf, apparently, since the initial numbers were unintentional). She obviously remains super strong.

entrailbucket

Strong defensive teams/characters/supports are bad in MPQ because of the way PvP is set up. It's not that defense is bad per se. It's that we all have a choice of which fights to take, and nobody wants to fight against very strong defensive teams or teams which are likely to take forever to beat.

This would work fine if the teams were particularly hard to get, but nobody is actually hard to get anymore for the top players. So once a strong defensive thing shows up, whatever it is, if you don't have that thing you're going to get attacked way more. Now everyone has to chase it. And eventually, if you're the only one who's not using that thing, you're going to get murdered.

So defensive stuff just ends up homogenizing the metagame and slowing everything down for everyone. We're incentivized by the game's mechanics to run the strongest defensive thing all the time. We've seen this over and over -- Scarlet Witch/Colossus, Chasm/Hulk, Eros Arrow/Leapfrog, and probably plenty of others.

Kross

Frankie and Shalla are not variants of the same character, or versions of a character from different earths, etc. They are two completely separate characters from the same universe. Only commonality is they had the same job. Should we have a game construct called "Herald of Galactus" with various skins, all having the same power set? Already have multiple heralds in game, so a bit late.

I would be down for this. I would always use Fire Lord. He was always my favorite herald.

JoeHandle

@Kross said:

Frankie and Shalla are not variants of the same character, or versions of a character from different earths, etc. They are two completely separate characters from the same universe. Only commonality is they had the same job. Should we have a game construct called "Herald of Galactus" with various skins, all having the same power set? Already have multiple heralds in game, so a bit late.

I would be down for this. I would always use Fire Lord. He was always my favorite herald.

Give us Firelord in game! We have Silver Surfer, Nova, and (heh) Golden Oldie, that's three, give Firelord and Shalla Bal, makes 5. Then put them, one each on the side nodes of the Galactus event. And lock the heralds out. Have to fight through them to get to Galactus.

And then add a 9th round to the event, with a return of Galactus 1.0, and in the 9th round there are no side nodes, the heralds flip and are unloacked, to fight with the player (high-level loaners available) against Galactus.