Updated Digital Bro Financials

124

Comments

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,559 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 10 June 2025, 21:07

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    Who are they playing against?!??!? Isn't high level PvP pre-arranged victories? I still don't get it. Maybe they should go to EB slice and take him on with the new shiny? That would test it out? Or shut him up!

    like I said earlier. you'd use the new char with its chosen partner till your first shield and then play your fastest meta pair on your hops. maybe try it the new combo in a few speciality situations?

    I'm not one of those 1000 match per event players maybe 40 at most unless its a weird event. but yeah 20-25 matches experimenting with the new char, then best pair to shield and for hops

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,559 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything, and completely avoiding RNG (since CS would just gift you 100 covers of whatever that character was).

    It's not about new characters or novelty or working out combos or anything like that, this was the cheapest most consistent way to get maxed out characters -- and it was the cheapest and most consistent, by, like, a million miles.

    except the numbers clearly show that it did take a decent chunk of money to maintain that train. Beyond just game apathy losing 30% of revenue when the only substantive/strucutural change is eliminating access to the newest char.

    framing this in terms swaps is a red herring.

    you could clearly just set the "tarriff" to zero and allow swaps to toni. to get back to the original situation.

    Consider this last conumdrum.
    Under the old system. you would need to 550 sam , WS, hobs, ?? , Toni.

    Under the new system, You could conceivably not 550 WS and Hobgob to get a 550 toni. Plus you had at least a month of foreknowledge and real world exp to decide exactly where you want Toni to sit on your roster.

    I'm not the spreadsheet jockey who sold their bosses a Bill of Goods. So who knows how they sold the revenue picture. But at a min they made there revenue stream a lot more unpredictable.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,640 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 10 June 2025, 21:22

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything, and completely avoiding RNG (since CS would just gift you 100 covers of whatever that character was).

    It's not about new characters or novelty or working out combos or anything like that, this was the cheapest most consistent way to get maxed out characters -- and it was the cheapest and most consistent, by, like, a million miles.

    except the numbers clearly show that it did take a decent chunk of money to maintain that train. Beyond just game apathy losing 30% of revenue when the only substantive/strucutural change is eliminating access to the newest char.

    framing this in terms swaps is a red herring.

    you could clearly just set the "tarriff" to zero and allow swaps to toni. to get back to the original situation.

    Consider this last conumdrum.
    Under the old system. you would need to 550 sam , WS, hobs, ?? , Toni.

    Under the new system, You could conceivably not 550 WS and Hobgob to get a 550 toni. Plus you had at least a month of foreknowledge and real world exp to decide exactly where you want Toni to sit on your roster.

    I'm not the spreadsheet jockey who sold their bosses a Bill of Goods. So who knows how they sold the revenue picture. But at a min they made there revenue stream a lot more unpredictable.

    Well, the numbers show that the buyclubs stopped, and the buyclubs stopped because swaps were removed. How much buyclub spending was actually required for someone to keep this swap thing going? There were completely free to play players doing it, and a lot of the folks in that buyclub room were doing a buy like once a year, or had done one buyclub ever and just hung around.

    I was always fine with them doing swaps for whales -- say $10k per year range. Those folks should get better service than the rest of us because they're keeping the game alive. But this was not that.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,627 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,640 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,559 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,974 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

    I don't understand. How does playing the game lots but not buying things = playing the game lots but buying things? So what have the players who didn't spend done since, have they stopped playing the game since the buy club boycott, as that is all they were contributing? Or are they still playing the game meaning they contributed nothing more than any other non spending players but received considerable return? Honestly not trying to be snarky here but that doesn't add up to me?

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,627 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    That's not possible, assuming they want to stay on the 550 train. If a FTP player hoarded for years, they could do it for a few months. But not continuously.

    In order to stay on the 550 train, you needed, at a minimum, 560 pulls of LL each month (combination of tokens and/or 25 command points). With the odds at 1:7 for pulling a 5*, that gives 80 5* from LL a month to exchange. Since it takes 100 to get to 550, you can pick up the rest between Boss Event, PVE. PVP etc.

    There is no way a truly FTP player (have to be spending zero) could accumulate a combo of 560 pulls each month. That's 18 pulls a day. Eventually, you can't keep up. You may be able to ride the 550 train for a bit if you have been hoarding. That, I totally believe. But to keep going? You can't be FTP you just need to stop and hoard up again.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,974 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 11 June 2025, 12:32

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    That's not possible, assuming they want to stay on the 550 train. If a FTP player hoarded for years, they could do it for a few months. But not continuously.

    In order to stay on the 550 train, you needed, at a minimum, 560 pulls of LL each month (combination of tokens and/or 25 command points). With the odds at 1:7 for pulling a 5*, that gives 80 5* from LL a month to exchange. Since it takes 100 to get to 550, you can pick up the rest between Boss Event, PVE. PVP etc.

    There is no way a truly FTP player (have to be spending zero) could accumulate a combo of 560 pulls each month. That's 18 pulls a day. Eventually, you can't keep up. You may be able to ride the 550 train for a bit if you have been hoarding. That, I totally believe. But to keep going? You can't be FTP you just need to stop and hoard up again.

    It seems to me that both are possible? If the FTP were breaking hoards and targeting certain releases then going to CS for cover swaps regardless of the fact they hadn't contributed to the companies financial wellbeing in any meaningful way, it does seem they were getting something effectively for nothing riding on the back of the actual spending whales. So you are both right.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,559 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    That's not possible, assuming they want to stay on the 550 train. If a FTP player hoarded for years, they could do it for a few months. But not continuously.

    In order to stay on the 550 train, you needed, at a minimum, 560 pulls of LL each month (combination of tokens and/or 25 command points). With the odds at 1:7 for pulling a 5*, that gives 80 5* from LL a month to exchange. Since it takes 100 to get to 550, you can pick up the rest between Boss Event, PVE. PVP etc.

    There is no way a truly FTP player (have to be spending zero) could accumulate a combo of 560 pulls each month. That's 18 pulls a day. Eventually, you can't keep up. You may be able to ride the 550 train for a bit if you have been hoarding. That, I totally believe. But to keep going? You can't be FTP you just need to stop and hoard up again.

    It seems to me that both are possible? If the FTP were breaking hoards and targeting certain releases then going to CS for cover swaps regardless of the fact they hadn't contributed to the companies financial wellbeing in any meaningful way, it does seem they were getting something effectively for nothing riding on the back of the actual spending whales. So you are both right.

    Honestly, you gotta ask that question to the devs. I didn't design their economy, I can only just observe what we've all seen over the years.

    In the real world, WE ALL KNOW time spent at job is no guarantee of success.

    In the game world, playing/winning matches, doing pve grinds, doing LRS. Climbing the Shield Ranks. All those things are games/matches/time spent in game and over the YEARS. Its guaranteed to generate roster success. You can quibble about whether $20 asc chars means your "buying" your way to success. but short of dollar spend, there is not other guaranteed way to grow your roster but to play/win matches.

  • TheXMan
    TheXMan Posts: 225 Tile Toppler

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    That's not possible, assuming they want to stay on the 550 train. If a FTP player hoarded for years, they could do it for a few months. But not continuously.

    In order to stay on the 550 train, you needed, at a minimum, 560 pulls of LL each month (combination of tokens and/or 25 command points). With the odds at 1:7 for pulling a 5*, that gives 80 5* from LL a month to exchange. Since it takes 100 to get to 550, you can pick up the rest between Boss Event, PVE. PVP etc.

    There is no way a truly FTP player (have to be spending zero) could accumulate a combo of 560 pulls each month. That's 18 pulls a day. Eventually, you can't keep up. You may be able to ride the 550 train for a bit if you have been hoarding. That, I totally believe. But to keep going? You can't be FTP you just need to stop and hoard up again.

    It seems to me that both are possible? If the FTP were breaking hoards and targeting certain releases then going to CS for cover swaps regardless of the fact they hadn't contributed to the companies financial wellbeing in any meaningful way, it does seem they were getting something effectively for nothing riding on the back of the actual spending whales. So you are both right.

    You had to stay on the train every month because they only swap once the other character is at 550. So, if you only target certain releases, it takes a lot more pulls to max out the one you want. This was not something a FTP person could maintain for more than a few releases.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,974 Chairperson of the Boards

    But you only had to ride the train for the stops you wanted, so a FTP player just hopped on for the 3 550s they wanted then jumped back off again without paying a fare! They exploited a policy never designed with them in mind and this is likely what caused the end of te policy, hurting the whales in the process who at least deserved the cover swap policy for their support of the game.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,640 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

    "Time spent in game" is worth $0. This game doesn't have ads.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,559 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

    "Time spent in game" is worth $0. This game doesn't have ads.

    From a certain point of view. hahaha

    if your the player, time in game, event particpation, matches won. ftp got you a baller roster or at least something respectable. So time was a more than adequate substitute for money.

    From the Devs point of view. Who knows how they value game play metrics? You could always have fake AI bots like Kick a kick, make them queueable for appropriate points, give them a whale roster and smarter AI and let them make matches if there isn't a live unshielded player who's event score/roster makes them a viable for who ever hops.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,640 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

    "Time spent in game" is worth $0. This game doesn't have ads.

    From a certain point of view. hahaha

    if your the player, time in game, event particpation, matches won. ftp got you a baller roster or at least something respectable. So time was a more than adequate substitute for money.

    From the Devs point of view. Who knows how they value game play metrics? You could always have fake AI bots like Kick a kick, make them queueable for appropriate points, give them a whale roster and smarter AI and let them make matches if there isn't a live unshielded player who's event score/roster makes them a viable for who ever hops.

    Oh I'm sure they value play time, because for most players, more time means more money spent! ...just not for those players who are upstanding members of our "community."

    The community is what ruined the whole swap thing, after all. If the few players who'd known about this had just kept it to themselves, it would've gone on forever. Instead people wrote, like, literal guides on how to scam free covers off CS -- what did you all think was going to happen?

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,559 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

    "Time spent in game" is worth $0. This game doesn't have ads.

    From a certain point of view. hahaha

    if your the player, time in game, event particpation, matches won. ftp got you a baller roster or at least something respectable. So time was a more than adequate substitute for money.

    From the Devs point of view. Who knows how they value game play metrics? You could always have fake AI bots like Kick a kick, make them queueable for appropriate points, give them a whale roster and smarter AI and let them make matches if there isn't a live unshielded player who's event score/roster makes them a viable for who ever hops.

    Oh I'm sure they value play time, because for most players, more time means more money spent! ...just not for those players who are upstanding members of our "community."

    The community is what ruined the whole swap thing, after all. If the few players who'd known about this had just kept it to themselves, it would've gone on forever. Instead people wrote, like, literal guides on how to scam free covers off CS -- what did you all think was going to happen?

    These are reasonable rational points. Anyone who starts a business/ endevaor /game whatever will have to address these and a myriad of other issues both game and external environmental factors.

    And yet here we sit as fellow SR 4000+ accounts (10year+ accounts for the uninitiated), with multiple chairman of the boards tags. Some might argue that having the guides and roadmaps is what allowed all the subsequent players to thrive and have their best experience.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,640 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @TheXMan said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Phumade said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I mean... exactly? Tons of characters are great when they're maxed out and boosted. I pretty much exclusively use 672s in PvP. Why are/were these players only using the new character when boosted, and only when they got the new character boost? Jubilee would be boosted again after that, and she'd be just as good (actually slightly better since the new character boost is slightly smaller).

    Did someone say these characters were only used during their initial boost month and never again? People used Kaine, May, Phyla, etc again when their boost weeks came along.

    Because the only thing that's ever been talked about is having the new character for the new character boost! By the time Kaine or whoever rolled back around, there would be another new character being boosted, and so (supposedly) all these folks would be exclusively using whoever that new guy was.

    That was the old system. You got a fresh monthly max leveled 5* at a very low manageable price. You're not precluded from using other 550's or 672s. but for taht month you might as well play the heck out of him in pvp and learn who they work well with and are bad against.

    you might say just wait the month and buy them via the LL trade at 650hp. and maybe thats where the system equalizes at. but that still ignores, they can't get new covers after the debut store weekend.

    ...and that's what this whole thing is actually about. These players found a way to score a >bunch of free 550s without spending much of anything,

    Without spending much of anything? Nothing could be further from the truth. If you wanted to stay on that 550 train, there was a lot of spending actual $$$ that had to happen. You didn't just stay on the 550 train by not spending money.

    How much? There were definitely free to play players doing it.

    Your paying with cash or time spent in game. Who knows how the accountants justify the revenue or gametime. but they are playing the matches, and logging the time ingame. We'd all give up our left nuts to get unfiltered access to those datapoints. I'd relearn sql, If that let me query the history database.

    "Time spent in game" is worth $0. This game doesn't have ads.

    From a certain point of view. hahaha

    if your the player, time in game, event particpation, matches won. ftp got you a baller roster or at least something respectable. So time was a more than adequate substitute for money.

    From the Devs point of view. Who knows how they value game play metrics? You could always have fake AI bots like Kick a kick, make them queueable for appropriate points, give them a whale roster and smarter AI and let them make matches if there isn't a live unshielded player who's event score/roster makes them a viable for who ever hops.

    Oh I'm sure they value play time, because for most players, more time means more money spent! ...just not for those players who are upstanding members of our "community."

    The community is what ruined the whole swap thing, after all. If the few players who'd known about this had just kept it to themselves, it would've gone on forever. Instead people wrote, like, literal guides on how to scam free covers off CS -- what did you all think was going to happen?

    These are reasonable rational points. Anyone who starts a business/ endevaor /game whatever will have to address these and a myriad of other issues both game and external environmental factors.

    And yet here we sit as fellow SR 4000+ accounts (10year+ accounts for the uninitiated), with multiple chairman of the boards tags. Some might argue that having the guides and roadmaps is what allowed all the subsequent players to thrive and have their best experience.

    There's a big difference between guides like "here's a fun combo" or "this character is good if you do this" and guides like "here's how you get all the best stuff without paying for it" or "here's how to win everything while playing as little as possible."

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,974 Chairperson of the Boards

    We should also be very clear that the Devs do not care who is at the top of leaderboards or which Alliance is manipulating scores to win. So time played on the game without spending anything and then exploiting a good will gesture by the Devs does not = deserved. The amount of money talked about from buy clubs does not qualify many players whaling regularly and yet an incredible amount of 30% of CS time spent on cover swaps suggests many more players using this good will gesture. And then the whales got screwed and you can only point at the guilty parties who are probably complaining as much!

  • Godzillafan67
    Godzillafan67 Posts: 670 Critical Contributor

    I found out about the 550 CS cover swaps a few months before they kiboshed it. The person who let me in on the secret was an FTP player. They were definitely playing regularly and getting top individual/alliance rewards to maintain the train, and I presumed that it was this group that killed the swapping. After all, it is really easy to match to spenders to the swappers to see if CS's time investment is worth it.

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