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bbigler

@WhiteBomber said:
I suppose it depends on your side goal (other than winning) what are you looking for?

• Do you want to leave a defensive team behind?
• Do you want to win with minimal damage taken (save health packs)?
• Win as quickly as possible?

There are multiple teams that can beat them, but they kinda have different side goals. If I just want to crush them and move on, I use Electro5 and Moonstone4 (many support options work). If I want to have fun, I will use Agatha3 (ascended4) w/ Karnak maaaybe BRB or Multiman and starting blue AP. Your best defensive bet would likely be Electro with someone like ascended Gorr or Blob (I don't have these done yet, so this is hypothesizing), maybe ascended Moondragon with iHulk.

More often than not, I would just crush them quickly and then switch to a better defensive team against someone not Juggernaut.

You could also try out Darkveil w/ Krakoa, Shang (or any boosted hero) w/ Fcar and start with 1-2 team up. Send Juggs away first, kill Sam and boom, easy street. I leave this team on defense often and still nets a lot of wins.

Not sure if you are keeping up with the first page, but here are videos of 2 of the teams mentioned who don't care about JuggerSam at all:

Darkveil4 w/ Krakoa, Shangchi5 w/ Fantasticar (start with 1-2 team up for riskier teams): https://youtube.com/shorts/xzCholZiMjU

Electro5, Moonstone4: https://youtube.com/shorts/5OmwPzmU7BI?feature=share
(includes against Chasm team damage teams)

Excellent questions, I suppose I'm just trying to find a better team, one that can handle Copter cascades, which Electro-Elektra do a descent job. I will definitely try Electro & Moonstone! I really like Moonstone's winfinite, she just needs some power and Electro Thunderbolt affiliation sounds great. I haven't ascended Agatha yet, but she'll be on my radar - I currently pushing Aunt May to 370, then I'll ascend/level up 3Namor. Because I've been off and on with playing (but when I'm on, I play hardcore) I've missed characters over the years, like Multiman. Plus, I restarted my roster again in 2021. Nevertheless I can cover and champ any character within a season. Ascending characters takes longer, like 2-3 seasons, but still a "reasonable" amount of time. When I first heard about the JuggSam team with Copter (before it was popular), I realized it's great power and went to work developing it. My Sam and Copter are ready, but Juggs needs ascension, which I should be able to do in a month.

So here's my question to all those playing JuggSam - can this team beat anything? Or are there teams in PVP Pick-2 that you avoid?

On a side note, I'm very happy to see Electro making a comeback - she fell out of favor once iHulk left the meta, but she was one of the first characters I shard built from scratch with my new roster.

LavaManLee

There is one team that I avoid and that is someone with a 550 Riri and Coulson when I can tell from their supports that Riri is going to start with enough green to stun the team. My 550Sam/Juggs can hit hard, but not hard enough to take out a 550 Riri even if I get two turns (i.e. bring Chasm) before that team gets one.

Once Riri can stun the team, with the countdowns and Coulson, it is generally "bye bye" Juggs/Sam.

WhiteBomber

@bbigler
The Thunderbolts affiliation definitely gives you all you need to make the damage from ElectricMoon viable (over 60k on low level Electro black, which you will throw fast and often).

For the MMR I think you are at, I have to imagine there isn't much of anything that they won't crush. Perhaps Bucket and others bump in to more ascended Gorr and such to get a bigger pool of data.

Honestly though, even where I'm at (both Sam and Jugg are amongst my higher levels) there are still teams I would avoid simply because I don't want to heal them. They will most likely always win, but against things like boosted characters similar to Magik5, Polaris, Lavas noted team etc., you might eat more ability damage than you want before they go down. So I would use someone who ends that fight closer to full health. That's me though, and I think I might be an outlier for play style.

Random advice: If you have IronMay at 4star already, don't bother pushing her to 370; once she hits 4star, all she gets out of her additional levels is slightly more health, and that slightly more health means nothing during 99% of fights. If you move to Namor3 sooner, you will see far more value out of getting him to 5 faster (or anyone else for that matter).

WhiteBomber

Updated Page 1 with a video for the Hellteam (OmegaMaysm):
Electro5, ScarletWitch5, Wong5: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Z7ReRjwOOdQ

bbigler

@WhiteBomber
I think a lot of people use certain teams to avoid running out of healthpacks - doing many back to back battles is key to the game - so I'd say your playstyle is common. When Chasm was king, the complaint wasn't about beating him but about needing a healthpack after every battle. As for Aunt May, I believe taking her to 370 is necessary because there are too many battles where she died or almost died, so even an extra 5K - 10K in health can be the difference in winning and losing. She's vulnerable to AOEs and Random damage, which is very common in the meta. Getting my level 190 Namor3 to 5-star would probably take about 5 - 7 months, and that's with cover exchanges. My level 334 Aunt May can hit 370 in 1 month. Delaying Namor a month will not make a difference to me, but a slightly weaker Aunt May can hurt me. My present gameplay has more value than a distant future gameplay.

I think too many players lose sight of the value of time in this game. I see people focusing on the best team possible and spending all their resources to get it no matter how long it takes. The time it takes should be a factor! This includes the stubborn practice to always wait for 2 x 370 characters before ascending. If ascending a character now will improve your daily play, that has more value than the champ rewards you'll miss. At the 4-star level, my characters crawl at about 1 level per week or even month! With the exception of 1-stars, it can take years to ascend someone to 5-star if they're not favorited.

So, for example, if ascending Coulson will improve your daily play, then ascending him with a 370 + 271 now is better than waiting 3 - 4 months to ascend with a 370 + 370 (assuming he's favorited). This is the value of time. Having something now is worth more than having it in the future. Plus, the future can change and it may not be as valuable then. Now this doesn't mean you don't make long term goals, but it means that everyone should consider the time it takes to reach a certain goal.

For example again, if there are 3 top meta teams, ranked accordingly:
Team #1 would take you 18 months to build
Team #2 would take you 6 months to build
Team #3 would take you 2 months to build

I'm saying that it's better to build Team #3 first because of the development time, and then use your new/better Team #3 while building Team #2. Then while using Team #2, build Team #1. If you simply spend 18 months building Team #1, then your daily play is "hobbled" (by comparison) for those 18 months. Plus, you could miss out on better rewards if you used Team #3 or #2 during that time - plus the meta could likely change in 18 months and Team #1 is no longer #1! That's how short terms goals can outweigh long term goals. This applies to real life as well - having something now is more valuable than having it in the future.

bbigler

Sorry to derail the topic, but how does everyone handle M'Baku(w/ Fanticar) + Namor3? First, here's what I'm seeing in PVP Pick-2 matchups:

Points 0 to 600:
I see the easy teams, combinations of MThor, Shang, Polaris, BRB, Ascended Non-Boosted 1-stars

Points 600 to 800:
I see the boosted 5-star teams, which aren't too hard (if not meta characters)

Points 800 to 1000:
I see a wall of JuggSam and M'Baku-Namor, this is the hard slog. Many times I see 550 M'Bakus.

Points 1000 and above:
This is where MMR "breaks" and I see super easy teams worth 5 points OR the Meta Wall above

With that being said, how do you guys handle M'Baku? My Omega-May team doesn't hit hard enough to take him down. A Colossus-Shang team does work though, but it's slow. I imagine a JuggSam team would work because of the high damage. I imagine a Polaris-BRB team would work too if you can stun M'Baku early and then take him down in 4 turns. I imagine a 550 Spiderman-May would work because of the single target nukes. Please advise.

BriMan2222

@bbigler said:
Sorry to derail the topic, but how does everyone handle M'Baku(w/ Fanticar) + Namor3? First, here's what I'm seeing in PVP Pick-2 matchups:

Points 0 to 600:
I see the easy teams, combinations of MThor, Shang, Polaris, BRB, Ascended Non-Boosted 1-stars

Points 600 to 800:
I see the boosted 5-star teams, which aren't too hard (if not meta characters)

Points 800 to 1000:
I see a wall of JuggSam and M'Baku-Namor, this is the hard slog. Many times I see 550 M'Bakus.

Points 1000 and above:
This is where MMR "breaks" and I see super easy teams worth 5 points OR the Meta Wall above

With that being said, how do you guys handle M'Baku? My Omega-May team doesn't hit hard enough to take him down. A Colossus-Shang team does work though, but it's slow. I imagine a JuggSam team would work because of the high damage. I imagine a Polaris-BRB team would work too if you can stun M'Baku early and then take him down in 4 turns. I imagine a 550 Spiderman-May would work because of the single target nukes. Please advise.

I rarely see mbaku/namor in pvp 2 pvp. It's all jugg/sam. But the team that beats jugg sam should work for mbaku too. Polaris with Krakoa support and mthor. Bring +b/p and + all ap and you'll be able to fire Polaris stun immediately.

Start off stunning mbaku. Take out namor. Then finish off baku before he wakes up.

Borstock

It's fun when the 672 Sam drops around 62k worth of strikes on turn 1.

Grantosium

This might be unique to a softcap matchmaking meta but Multiple Man/4*Daredevil (with cart) is getting me a lot of turn 1 wins with any 2ap boost and turn 2 wins with no ap boosts. Tried this as an MThor counter as my Coulson isn't ascended and keen to use Multiple Man but being turn 1 it's effectively an anything counter.

Seen other people using this too, but not yet seen it mentioned on forum.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:
It's fun when the 672 Sam drops around 62k worth of strikes on turn 1.

This week is really, really stupid. Every fight is basically over in one move -- either you cascade them to death or they cascade you to death. I tried a few other teams using the boosted characters but there's nothing even close.

LavaManLee

Yeah, probably the quickest I've ever gotten to 25 wins in PVP.

Grantosium

To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

entrailbucket

@Grantosium said:
To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

I actually ran into something like the opposite of your problem -- because my Daken is 5*, he was tanking colors over Juggernaut, so I couldn't get the endless cascades everybody else was.

LavaManLee

@entrailbucket said:

@Grantosium said:
To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

I actually ran into something like the opposite of your problem -- because my Daken is 5*, he was tanking colors over Juggernaut, so I couldn't get the endless cascades everybody else was.

In reference to "endless cascades", are you referring to having Thanos Copter on Juggs or something else? I have Thanos Copter on my Juggs and rarely, if ever, get anything like endless cascades. I'm lucky if I even get an additional match. Just curious if there was something else. Thanks!

Pantera236

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Grantosium said:
To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

I actually ran into something like the opposite of your problem -- because my Daken is 5*, he was tanking colors over Juggernaut, so I couldn't get the endless cascades everybody else was.

In reference to "endless cascades", are you referring to having Thanos Copter on Juggs or something else? I have Thanos Copter on my Juggs and rarely, if ever, get anything like endless cascades. I'm lucky if I even get an additional match. Just curious if there was something else. Thanks!

Is your Thanos copter at 5*?

Borstock

It's fun when the 672 Sam drops around 62k worth of strikes on turn 1. > @entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:
It's fun when the 672 Sam drops around 62k worth of strikes on turn 1.

This week is really, really stupid. Every fight is basically over in one move -- either you cascade them to death or they cascade you to death. I tried a few other teams using the boosted characters but there's nothing even close.

I tried, too. Your roster is stronger than mine, but yeah, I had the same results. Made some people happy, though.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@Grantosium said:
To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

I actually ran into something like the opposite of your problem -- because my Daken is 5*, he was tanking colors over Juggernaut, so I couldn't get the endless cascades everybody else was.

We REALLY need a new match damage boost that only applies to a specific character

I was luckily able to get around this same issue by boosting Juggs Blue over Sams via a support but that made sense for me because my Copter isn't R5 so I could put anything on Juggs.

KGB

bbigler

I've been playing Omega with my Boosted Sam and it's nuts. I finally wised up on that combo and put Fantasticar on Sam with T-Sword on Omega. Once the strikes are out, the battle is over soon with either Fantasticar cascades or Omega's Tentacle Whip. I can't decide which 3rd support is better though, Leapfrog or Eros? - I like them both.

LavaManLee

@Pantera236 said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Grantosium said:
To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

I actually ran into something like the opposite of your problem -- because my Daken is 5*, he was tanking colors over Juggernaut, so I couldn't get the endless cascades everybody else was.

In reference to "endless cascades", are you referring to having Thanos Copter on Juggs or something else? I have Thanos Copter on my Juggs and rarely, if ever, get anything like endless cascades. I'm lucky if I even get an additional match. Just curious if there was something else. Thanks!

Is your Thanos copter at 5*?

Yep. It is. If I even make one match off of it, I consider myself lucky. It normally spins and does nothing.

Pantera236

@LavaManLee said:

@Pantera236 said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Grantosium said:
To be fair, in softcap world boosted Sam means you can't use Juggernaut with him this week which shakes up the meta. Quite different to what everyone else is experiencing!

I actually ran into something like the opposite of your problem -- because my Daken is 5*, he was tanking colors over Juggernaut, so I couldn't get the endless cascades everybody else was.

In reference to "endless cascades", are you referring to having Thanos Copter on Juggs or something else? I have Thanos Copter on my Juggs and rarely, if ever, get anything like endless cascades. I'm lucky if I even get an additional match. Just curious if there was something else. Thanks!

Is your Thanos copter at 5*?

Yep. It is. If I even make one match off of it, I consider myself lucky. It normally spins and does nothing.

Lol, yeah I feel it.