What's going on with Mthor AI?

WhiteBomber

The Rock Paper Scissors to me, is just like a story I know, called "The Puppy Who Lost His Way".

The world was changing, and the puppy was getting... bigger. For you see, the puppy, was like RNG, in that, they were both lost in the woods, and nobody, especially the boy (this forum), knew where to find it.

Except that the puppy, was a dog! But the Rock Paper Scissors my friends, that was MThor.

PVP FOOTBALL RULES!

entrailbucket

Deleted a long, dumb rant. I should know better by now! I have no further thoughts on this topic.

BriMan2222

@WhiteBomber said:
The Rock Paper Scissors to me, is just like a story I know, called "The Puppy Who Lost His Way".

The world was changing, and the puppy was getting... bigger. For you see, the puppy, was like RNG, in that, they were both lost in the woods, and nobody, especially the boy (this forum), knew where to find it.

Except that the puppy, was a dog! But the Rock Paper Scissors my friends, that was MThor.

PVP FOOTBALL RULES!

The, uh...ethics of, uh...pvp can be summarized in... Aaaargggh.

pulls out gun

Carnage1484

@Omegased said:
I seem to remember the old Devs stating that as a cascade goes, there's a diminishing chance of getting a match. It's the only time they edit the falling gems because it felt unfair when your opponent got a mad long cascade.

The only problem with this, is that any passive that triggers during the cascade, resets the "diminishing chance". This is why profx, and onslaught sometimes feel extra mean, as they both have powers that interrupt the flow of a cascade.

Good news! Now, so does mThor with her supports.

Thor was asked about on Discord some months back and it was stated by Ice that her powers are the exception to the rule; they can and will cause cascades beyond what others can achieve.

“Ok, that makes things more clear. The "problem" is that there IS cascade protection, but it's per match/ability fire, and her ability destroys tiles in sequence, not as a single blast.”

Every power resets the cascade protection, and when her powers are relatively cheap AND she creates charge tiles gaining far more AP than most other characters, you get constant cascades.

Ryudo

Some of you didn't understand my complaint... I'm an old player, but I play casually. I have some characters at 550 so I know how to beat MThor, my problem is with this unfair RNG that when you're attacking it works one way and when you're defending it works another way. When in fact it should work the same way for both sides. It's frustrating to see Mthor on defense blowing up several blocks and making several matches while on my turn it doesn't work the same way. It's ridiculous to the point of not being able to make a match of the colors I need, while on the next turn the blocks magically appear and fill all the powers for her. The only thing I wanted was for it to be fair.

My anger originated because I lost quickly in 1 turn due to the infinite cascades she caused using Omni city.

Another detail, in PVP with 2 characters you can't keep putting 4* in an attempt to stop her knowing that on the other side there are several 550 players. My Chasm is far from 550 so I prefer to put characters that I know will make the match fast and not fall easily.

As @entrailbucket said, losing a few times like this can make anyone upset.

WhiteBomber

Entrail deleted his post, so now mine makes even less sense

My experience against her cascades doesn't often feel different than my experience playing her, though that could just be because I almost never use her.

I know you're not really asking for advice, but perhaps for others who end up here:

Since you are in a higher bracket than me (no 550's yet) this might be different for you, but I regularly fight high to max MThors and others in pick 2 with Darkveil (4star). If you want speed and full health you can go with Shang Car, otherwise you can use any hero for the free win (especially boosted). These teams win a staggering amount for me on defense, though, this may be what's different in 550 land?

If you want to guarantee no shenanigans, take 1 or 2 team-up with you in to the fight, so on turn 1 she will send herself away. Mutant heaven on Dark will also almost always make it so you can throw Darks yellow turn 1, giving free AP over time.

My Chasm is only like 470 somethin and I would also still recommend him against her, regardless of level, but I would understand not wanting to use him against the other boosted 550 she might be hanging out with.

entrailbucket

Darkveil will get eaten alive on defense in pick-2, at the 550 level.

WhiteBomber

@entrailbucket said:
Darkveil will get eaten alive on defense in pick-2, at the 550 level.

Pictures or it didn't happen!

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:
Darkveil will get eaten alive on defense in pick-2, at the 550 level.

DEFINITELY. I go for progression, not placement, so it's not a problem for me.

Daredevil217

Everyone giving team suggestions is missing the point. OP is saying that he knows how to beat her but is struggling with her functioning different on offense than defense and is asking for parity.

To the OP, unfortunately this is a perception issue and not an actual issue with the game. You are FAR more likely to remember bad beats/wipes than you are the times you cascade your way to victory. Once you start believing the game is “rigged”, then you will double down on this due to confirmation bias. It’s human nature. This isn’t the first character to attract these types of posts (Teen Jean anyone?!) and won’t be the last. There are no shenanigans afoot. If there are differences it is likely due to support load outs. Also, the AI gets more cascades on turn 2 than you do on turn 1 due to more charged tiles on the board. But other than that, all things equal, you will have the same number of highs/lows that the computer does.

“In Confessions of a Winning Poker Player, Jack King said, ‘Few players recall big pots they have won, strange as it seems, but every player can remember with remarkable accuracy the outstanding tough beats of his career’. It seems true to me, cause walking in here, I can hardly remember how I built my bankroll, but I can't stop thinking of how I lost it.”

—Mike McDermott, Rounders

LavaManLee

@WhiteBomber said:

@entrailbucket said:
Darkveil will get eaten alive on defense in pick-2, at the 550 level.

Pictures or it didn't happen!

Well, no pictures to take because nobody I see at a 550 level in PVP has ever left a Darkveil out in the wild for which to take a picture. They are like Bigfoot to every 550 group I ever get placed with in PVP. Not a one of them dares leave Darkveil out as that is a huge "hit me target".

entrailbucket

That's kinda what I was trying to say before I flew off on a (since-deleted!) tangent.

I often play 100+ PvP matches per event, and unless something has gone horribly wrong, I lose on offense 0-3 times. I generally remember nothing about any of the wins, but remember each loss in excruciating detail. My guess is most players are around that same loss rate.

Supposedly pre nerf Gambit had like a 10% defensive winrate, which sounds like nothing, but fighting a character like that in this game is infuriating. MPQ is not really set up for that to happen -- losing on offense feels really bad.

Warbringa

@entrailbucket said:
That's kinda what I was trying to say before I flew off on a (since-deleted!) tangent.

I often play 100+ PvP matches per event, and unless something has gone horribly wrong, I lose on offense 0-3 times. I generally remember nothing about any of the wins, but remember each loss in excruciating detail. My guess is most players are around that same loss rate.

Supposedly pre nerf Gambit had like a 10% defensive winrate, which sounds like nothing, but fighting a character like that in this game is infuriating. MPQ is not really set up for that to happen -- losing on offense feels really bad.

That 10% defensive win rate was also probably factoring in if you had your own Gambit at the time. Mirror matching was really the only choice during that period because pre-nerf Gambit was so far ahead of the other characters. If you didn't have a Gambit yourself, I am pretty confident your loss rate when fighting Gambit teams was significantly higher than 10% in that era...

Pre-nerf Gambit, if his stats/damage were updated, would still be good in this era (better than the current Gambit) but I doubt he would even be considered top 10/15. His stealing AP while generating AP combo though could still be pretty brutal today, but there are way more ways that it can now be dealt with.