Upcoming 5-Star (11/17 release): No 3-Star Version

Chipster22

@Bad said:

More 3*s means more rewards.

Is this really true?

More tokens would provide more rewards.

More 3* characters would just mean that tokens given would get spread more thinly among them.

bigjojo04

@Chipster22 said:

@Bad said:

More 3*s means more rewards.

Is this really true?

More tokens would provide more rewards.

More 3* characters would just mean that tokens given would get spread more thinly among them.

More 3* may mean it may take longer or have less chances to pull the ones you want but it does give more feeders for characters that may not have one yet thusly giving you more rewards. Just cuz it decreases your chances to pull a certain 3* having more it still provides more rewards than what there was.

ThaRoadWarrior

But you need to get that same 3* over and over to hit those rewards - if you rarely to never get them then are you really better off?

bigjojo04

Yes because it’s still more rewards regardless. If you want the rewards for that particular 3 then just favorite them and get it thru shards. And plus with the new 3* that get released the odds to get them when they’re first released are increased so you’ll get them at a higher rate so you won’t ‘rarely to never’ get them.

Bowgentle

Why is it more rewards?
The same number of covers is given out, spread over an ever increasing army of characters.
That's like saying it would be good to release a character each day, because imagine all the rewards!
I never thought I'd see people arguing that dilution is a GOOD thing.

bigjojo04

How is it not more rewards? Just because you’re not getting them all daily doesn’t mean that there aren’t more…..

HoundofShadow

It's not more rewards. Some simple math will show that.

Before September, there were 47 3*. For really veteran players, 3* farm turns about twice a year. We have 47 * 113 covers * 2 = 10, 622 3* covers in a year.

Right now, we have 49 3*. The number of times 3* farm turn is 10,622 / (49*113) = 1.92 times a year.

As you can see, your 3* farm turns slower the more 3* you have. Also, the closer your characters are to max champed, the better your rewards are.

The dev needs to insert additional 11074 - 10622 = 452 covers a year for it to be termed more rewards.

Ares76

I'm a 5-star player and my 3-stars are still very important for farming rewards.

I don't know how often I rotated my 3-stars since I started this game. I guess it must be around 10-times at least.
Every 3-star-cover is the equivalent of 5/113 Legendary tokens for me. All my 3-stars are at different levels right now. Due to the bonus odds my Emma and Arcade already surpassed other 3*s on their way to max-champ.

I don't see how releasing more 3-stars slows this down for veterans.

If you're a beginner and you're starting your first cycle to max-champs it could be.
But then is it really so important for 3-star-players to get as many Legendary tokes as possible in this early stage of the game? They will get them sooner or later since every cover is 5/113 of a LT. More 5-stars means you have to spend more HP on rostering them which is also a hinderance for new players.

DAZ0273

@HoundofShadow said:
It's not more rewards. Some simple math will show that.

Before September, there were 47 3*. For really veteran players, 3* farm turns about twice a year. We have 47 * 113 covers * 2 = 10, 622 3* covers in a year.

Right now, we have 49 3*. The number of times 3* farm turn is 10,622 / (49*113) = 1.92 times a year.

As you can see, your 3* farm turns slower the more 3* you have. Also, the closer your characters are to max champed, the better your rewards are.

The dev needs to insert additional 11074 - 10622 = 452 covers a year for it to be termed more rewards.

That assumes that you farm all 3* which I don't think is necessarily the case for all. I don't have a farm for all 49, maybe half that. So switching out which 3* I am building at any given moment doesn't necessarily impact to the degree above but every 3* added does mean I have less chance to get whatever 3* I am chasing in the farms I do have running.

I agree it is not more rewards overall though but it is potentially more targeted rewards if it opens up lines of feeders to 4* who never had 3* feeders in the past and they then lead to new 5* fed. But that is a different thing to what I think is being suggested?

ThaRoadWarrior

Anecdotal RNG isn’t super useful, but at this point being a champ-em-all player on day 2463 with all pre-Emma 5s champed except for half a cover of black suit and 11 max-champ 4s with all the rest champed, I’ve organically champed Emma to 177 without favoriting her and my Arcade is 3/4/5 with 2 saved covers - hardly what I’d call swimming in them but having them specifically champed isn’t super important to me so much as what the champ rewards do. I don’t keep any 3* on roster for it’s own sake, just node access and champ rewards; I flip them over as soon as they hit 266 and I get a 267th to reroster. I only really say that to say I guess I’m some flavor of “vet,” and those new 3*s are coming down the pipe but hardly in anything more than a trickle. We’ll have to go back to the Latest 12 odds we had in the old days after a few more releases to keep parity I think. It’s the seeds of a bad situation from my perspective, but I don’t have all the data or the roadmap so take that for what it’s worth.

loroku

More 3-stars = more HP required = slower progress for everyone except SCL10.

More ANY characters = slower progress, but 5-stars aren't as big of a deal for the lower-level folks.

More 3-stars is fewer rewards. I saw the argument that the recent 3-stars are better than the old ones, but that doesn't really make much difference to anyone. 3-star matches are a solved equation. Maybe this will shake that meta up slightly? But it still won't make much difference, and in the end, it will take longer to get a usable 3-star team, so it's ultimately worse.

Bad

More 3s are more rewards.
It enables more new 4s and shards covers which actually are more valuable rewards than the 3* in itself, and not talking about the 5* covers and shards those new 4* give.
You can calculate the overall rewards for a 3* and the distribution but if you forget that all of this is a tree interconnected, the calculations are untrue.
Also a really active player won't care at all about more 3* releases.

ThaRoadWarrior

Even if you want to argue the semantics that a new character with a new reward tree == more rewards, the point on the table is that it slows down your aquisition of those rewards SIGNIFICANTLY, and those rewards are what fuel your ability to aquire rewards in the upper roster tiers. It's overal a huge cooldown on roster growth to bloat the feeder tiers. Saying there are more or less rewards is a straw man - the point is that it slows down progression to add them.

Bad

Are we not receiving aditional covers? What about the deathlok shardmas? The arcade, emma 5? The 4 covers and community shards for doop? Several reptil covers? Yesterday last deathlok cover?
I can guarantee all these tasty covers make a difference when farming because they worth a lot of new 3s levels.
Again, is not just about 3 farming, is about 4s and 5s rewards they enable.

Bad

And why do you want a so fast adquisition?
That only helps on long term to have 4s dupes. 4s dupes are the real dead weight filling slots because nobody will sell a dupe anymore seeing so many shardmas.
No, more 3*s means more rewards because it keeps the farm producing.
It slows down the reward adquisition? Oh, but this game works on a fast adquisition concept? Because I didn't notice before.

ThaRoadWarrior

again, that's a straw man. randomly given covers to new characters isn't the same as predictable income of hp, cp, tokens, etc from a fixed size 3* farm.

ThaRoadWarrior

@dianetics said:
My concerns stem from low tier players not high tier.
I’ve mentioned the imbalance of the early game for new players. Fattening the 3* roster slows down progression for new players.
I want more people to make to 4* and 5* faster so the later game is healthier.
I know my posts have been about the farm but it impacts newer players far worse than long term players.
We do not need a fat roster at the low end.

Agreed - it affects all levels of play, even if it does so in slightly different ways. I can't think of any who benefit meaningfully from it.

Bad

Devs are lowering +300 slots to 1200 hp.
On DDQ it can be earned 45 hp daily. ~1350 hp per month.
A lot of free 4* covers and shards.
What else do you want? Free characters and free slots without having to play at the very least?
As you can see I'm not concerned about new players at all as long as devs don't.
If you want a gacha game not releasing characters, sorry that's not possible, or at least not an alive running gacha game.

LavaManLee

@Bad said:
If you want a gacha game not releasing characters, sorry that's not possible, or at least not an alive running gacha game.

This is a false argument. Nobody is saying not to release characters. What people are saying is there is no need to release more 3s in conjunction with a 5. As someone way into 5* land, the release of a 3* doesn't matter to me. But I can see where this is absolutely NOT a good thing for a new player and understand the argument against releasing more 3*s.

HoundofShadow

The thing is, new players want more different 3* characters. If you look at facebook, reddit or even this forum, requests for more 3* by new players can be observed from such places. That was the main reason for releasing 3/5.

The veterans are looking at the game from optimal / min-max playstyle viewpoint, while new players are looking at things from "I want more varieties in 3* land." Both viewpoints don't agree with each other.

Without 3+5 release, I don't think they will reduce roster slot to 1200, which nets those with over 300 roster slots a net gain of ~400hp a month. As a matter of fact, roster slot was reduced to due to release of 3+5.