boosted 5* in pvp: how are you feeling about it after a few weeks

Bad

This game, like all gacha games, is designed for to be in continuous progress.
Players who put in more concern for to not evolve or other players cannot see them are not actually playing the game. 
Be interested in making progress instead of remain at low profile.
And to know how pvp actually works.
Without the interest to learn and the ambition to grow up the meta always will eat you.

KGB

entrailbucket said:

*The strategy being employed here is no longer ideal and nobody has bothered to reconsider it.* 

They're trying to encourage players to not do what he's doing. 

If players would have to open 20,000 CP and spend 80 starks to get a single one-cover 5*, why are all of these other low tier players running one-cover 5*?  They are opening as they go, and they have a few one-cover or two-cover 5* that make them unbeatable that week.

The meta has shifted 180°.  You can't expect to do things the same way you did before.  Open as you go, collect 5* as you go, be successful if you have the 5* that week.

There has been no official word that this is going to continue going forward or whether it's a short term experiment followed by adjustments. Until there is official word it would be crazy to wildly adjust your strategy after 2 weeks time.

I understand shifting the 5* meta with boosted characters. Makes total sense for those with 5* MMR.

But what's happening now is that the 3 and 4* metas are being made totally obsolete. It's just 2* then straight to 5* and nothing in between. Since your a long time player you'll recall why OML was nerfed. It was because 2* players were drawing a single Yellow cover and riding it. The same thing is now happening in 3/4* land due to the crazy boost being given to 5* which already started at very high levels (as a late stage 4* player with mine in the 320 range all I see are dual boosted 5* or Polaris teams, virtually no dual 4* boosted at all).

It should be very easy to reign in the 5* boost in a manner I suggested (fewer levels for under covered 5*) to prevent this from happening.

KGB

TheRiddler

What is the formula for how many levels are added to a boosted 5*? My undercovered Thor is 114 levels higher but I'm seeing different numbers in PVP. Some are 119 levels higher and seen one that was 121 levels higher. Some sort of multiplier?

entrailbucket

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

*The strategy being employed here is no longer ideal and nobody has bothered to reconsider it.* 

They're trying to encourage players to not do what he's doing. 

If players would have to open 20,000 CP and spend 80 starks to get a single one-cover 5*, why are all of these other low tier players running one-cover 5*?  They are opening as they go, and they have a few one-cover or two-cover 5* that make them unbeatable that week.

The meta has shifted 180°.  You can't expect to do things the same way you did before.  Open as you go, collect 5* as you go, be successful if you have the 5* that week.

There has been no official word that this is going to continue going forward or whether it's a short term experiment followed by adjustments. Until there is official word it would be crazy to wildly adjust your strategy after 2 weeks time.

I understand shifting the 5* meta with boosted characters. Makes total sense for those with 5* MMR.

But what's happening now is that the 3 and 4* metas are being made totally obsolete. It's just 2* then straight to 5* and nothing in between. Since your a long time player you'll recall why OML was nerfed. It was because 2* players were drawing a single Yellow cover and riding it. The same thing is now happening in 3/4* land due to the crazy boost being given to 5* which already started at very high levels (as a late stage 4* player with mine in the 320 range all I see are dual boosted 5* or Polaris teams, virtually no dual 4* boosted at all).

It should be very easy to reign in the 5* boost in a manner I suggested (fewer levels for under covered 5*) to prevent this from happening.

KGB

OML was one character that was usable all the time.  The boosted 5* change every week.

I'm not sure if there will be an official announcement of this or not, so you may be waiting a very long time.  Part of the allure of this game for many players, including myself, is that the developers used to make fairly frequent, enormous, unannounced changes to the meta that absolutely precluded long-term planning of any kind.  They've gotten away from that for a few years and I hope that it's returned.


Anyway I guess I'm confused about the problem here.  You seem to be suggesting that there are players in the 3* and 4* tiers who are dominating because they have one-cover versions of all the 5*, and also that it's impossible for players at those tiers to have one-cover versions of all the 5*.  Which is it? 

If all of these players only have a few 5* covers, then they're dominating for a week then returning to normal, which is the same boat everyone else is in.

Sekilicious

There are multiple tiers of players, ranging between those who are actually f2p and those who dominate by spending enormous sums. The difference between the extremes is accentuated now that 5* are boosted, because those that spend can expect to to pull as they go, roster everyone they draw, and have the iso to pour into them. Those who cannot spend could expect to compete in PvP by playing optimally. Now the optimal way to play is still to hoard until you have hp to roster, but the game is tilted towards those who spend so they can pull everything as they go and level them without consideration.  Is that healthy for the game? Who knows, right now player expectations seem to be out of line with experience. 

KGB

entrailbucket said:

Anyway I guess I'm confused about the problem here.  You seem to be suggesting that there are players in the 3* and 4* tiers who are dominating because they have one-cover versions of all the 5*, and also that it's impossible for players at those tiers to have one-cover versions of all the 5*.  Which is it? 

If all of these players only have a few 5* covers, then they're dominating for a week then returning to normal, which is the same boat everyone else is in.

I'm saying that the problem is that the 5* boost of 100+ levels is SO overwhelming that players in the 3/4* tier are no longer using champed 3/4 characters. Instead they are just using 1-2 cover 5* characters in PvP because it's way more efficient to do so (easier and faster to win).

They don't dominate in the sense of placement obviously. Instead what happens is that all there is in the list of opponents is boosted 5* characters because that's all that's being used by other players in their same MMR. There are no more 3* vs 3* battles or 3* vs 4* or 4* vs 4*. It's just boosted 5* vs boosted 5*.

And yes, you technically 'dominate' for a week when yours are boosted. BUT YOU ALWAYS FACE boosted 5* every week because there is always someone who happens to have the right boosted 5* for that week. Since as you well know, MMR does not take boost into account you just get matched against boosted 5* even though you may have no boosted characters at all. This is a real problem at 3/4 level PVP because those characters were never designed to be going head-2-head with 5*s (even ones with just 1-2 covers).

As I mentioned, my L255 GR is boosted to 368. He has 31K health, does 325 avg match damage and his 1 cover Black does 4280 damage. If I compare to my L186 Deadpool he's boosted to 272 and has only 14K health and does 4K with his Red. Why would you use Deadpool? Even my max champed Deadpool is only boosted to L367 with 28K health and his Red does 7K which is comparable but match damage he only does 130 so GR will match damage him to death so even a L266 3* is barely usable against a 1 cover L255 GR.

Boosted 5* are great for 5* PvP. They aren't so great for the 3* and 4* PvP where they are crowding out everything else and making it so you only ever face boosted 5* in PvP. That's bad for the 3/4* PvP gaming experience.

The easiest fix is to change the 5* boost from a flat 100+ levels to instead be based on level / covers. Lets say it's based on covers. Take the boost level (113 levels for GR who goes from 255->368) and divide by 13 = ~8.7. So for every cover on your 5* you get 8.7 levels boost. So a single cover 5* gets 8.7 levels and a fully covered one gets 113 levels. Leaves 5* PvP unchanged for those with champs/near champs but restores the game play to 3/4* land where players mostly have a handful of covers for the 5*.

KGB

Phumade

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

Anyway I guess I'm confused about the problem here.  You seem to be suggesting that there are players in the 3* and 4* tiers who are dominating because they have one-cover versions of all the 5*, and also that it's impossible for players at those tiers to have one-cover versions of all the 5*.  Which is it? 

If all of these players only have a few 5* covers, then they're dominating for a week then returning to normal, which is the same boat everyone else is in.

I'm saying that the problem is that the 5* boost of 100+ levels is SO overwhelming that players in the 3/4* tier are no longer using champed 3/4 characters. Instead they are just using 1-2 cover 5* characters in PvP because it's way more efficient to do so (easier and faster to win).

They don't dominate in the sense of placement obviously. Instead what happens is that all there is in the list of opponents is boosted 5* characters because that's all that's being used by other players in their same MMR. There are no more 3* vs 3* battles or 3* vs 4* or 4* vs 4*. It's just boosted 5* vs boosted 5*.

And yes, you technically 'dominate' for a week when yours are boosted. BUT YOU ALWAYS FACE boosted 5* every week because there is always someone who happens to have the right boosted 5* for that week. Since as you well know, MMR does not take boost into account you just get matched against boosted 5* even though you may have no boosted characters at all. This is a real problem at 3/4 level PVP because those characters were never designed to be going head-2-head with 5*s (even ones with just 1-2 covers).

As I mentioned, my L255 GR is boosted to 368. He has 31K health, does 325 avg match damage and his 1 cover Black does 4280 damage. If I compare to my L186 Deadpool he's boosted to 272 and has only 14K health and does 4K with his Red. Why would you use Deadpool? Even my max champed Deadpool is only boosted to L367 with 28K health and his Red does 7K which is comparable but match damage he only does 130 so GR will match damage him to death so even a L266 3* is barely usable against a 1 cover L255 GR.

Boosted 5* are great for 5* PvP. They aren't so great for the 3* and 4* PvP where they are crowding out everything else and making it so you only ever face boosted 5* in PvP. That's bad for the 3/4* PvP gaming experience.

The easiest fix is to change the 5* boost from a flat 100+ levels to instead be based on level / covers. Lets say it's based on covers. Take the boost level (113 levels for GR who goes from 255->368) and divide by 13 = ~8.7. So for every cover on your 5* you get 8.7 levels boost. So a single cover 5* gets 8.7 levels and a fully covered one gets 113 levels. Leaves 5* PvP unchanged for those with champs/near champs but restores the game play to 3/4* land where players mostly have a handful of covers for the 5*.

KGB

We really need the dev level stats on matches etc.  it’s not that either is wrong in their line of thinking.  But we’re at a fine grain level of discussion where actual match  stats would really inform the discussion.  It’s been literal years since anyone of us played at that tier and even then we had the benefit of high level alliances/coordination/theory crafting.  So our 3*/4* exp would not be considered typical for anyone under Shield rank 75 ish.  

I personally can’t remember when the advance tier got such a big boost.  It would be like FIST//Buster Jean/buster with 75 levels against a simple 3* champ(no champ levels then)

it’s cool to keep up the discussion but you can’t really prove or disprove with out the actual game stats.

HoundofShadow

I think the default choices for them are:

Is my 5* boosted? Can my preferred 3* or 4*  hide behind them? If yes, use them. If not, is my non-boosted 5* effective against boosted 5*? If not, use 3* or 4*. 

3* and 4* players are still using their 3* or 4*. Even with the skewed level of boosted 5* against 3* or 4*, there are still more than enough players who uses champed 4* or 3* for you to play against. 

Timing and slices chosen are important in pvp when you want to climb.

entrailbucket

Phumade said:

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

Anyway I guess I'm confused about the problem here.  You seem to be suggesting that there are players in the 3* and 4* tiers who are dominating because they have one-cover versions of all the 5*, and also that it's impossible for players at those tiers to have one-cover versions of all the 5*.  Which is it? 

If all of these players only have a few 5* covers, then they're dominating for a week then returning to normal, which is the same boat everyone else is in.

I'm saying that the problem is that the 5* boost of 100+ levels is SO overwhelming that players in the 3/4* tier are no longer using champed 3/4 characters. Instead they are just using 1-2 cover 5* characters in PvP because it's way more efficient to do so (easier and faster to win).

They don't dominate in the sense of placement obviously. Instead what happens is that all there is in the list of opponents is boosted 5* characters because that's all that's being used by other players in their same MMR. There are no more 3* vs 3* battles or 3* vs 4* or 4* vs 4*. It's just boosted 5* vs boosted 5*.

And yes, you technically 'dominate' for a week when yours are boosted. BUT YOU ALWAYS FACE boosted 5* every week because there is always someone who happens to have the right boosted 5* for that week. Since as you well know, MMR does not take boost into account you just get matched against boosted 5* even though you may have no boosted characters at all. This is a real problem at 3/4 level PVP because those characters were never designed to be going head-2-head with 5*s (even ones with just 1-2 covers).

As I mentioned, my L255 GR is boosted to 368. He has 31K health, does 325 avg match damage and his 1 cover Black does 4280 damage. If I compare to my L186 Deadpool he's boosted to 272 and has only 14K health and does 4K with his Red. Why would you use Deadpool? Even my max champed Deadpool is only boosted to L367 with 28K health and his Red does 7K which is comparable but match damage he only does 130 so GR will match damage him to death so even a L266 3* is barely usable against a 1 cover L255 GR.

Boosted 5* are great for 5* PvP. They aren't so great for the 3* and 4* PvP where they are crowding out everything else and making it so you only ever face boosted 5* in PvP. That's bad for the 3/4* PvP gaming experience.

The easiest fix is to change the 5* boost from a flat 100+ levels to instead be based on level / covers. Lets say it's based on covers. Take the boost level (113 levels for GR who goes from 255->368) and divide by 13 = ~8.7. So for every cover on your 5* you get 8.7 levels boost. So a single cover 5* gets 8.7 levels and a fully covered one gets 113 levels. Leaves 5* PvP unchanged for those with champs/near champs but restores the game play to 3/4* land where players mostly have a handful of covers for the 5*.

KGB

We really need the dev level stats on matches etc.  it’s not that either is wrong in their line of thinking.  But we’re at a fine grain level of discussion where actual match  stats would really inform the discussion.  It’s been literal years since anyone of us played at that tier and even then we had the benefit of high level alliances/coordination/theory crafting.  So our 3*/4* exp would not be considered typical for anyone under Shield rank 75 ish.  

I personally can’t remember when the advance tier got such a big boost.  It would be like FIST//Buster Jean/buster with 75 levels against a simple 3* champ(no champ levels then)

it’s cool to keep up the discussion but you can’t really prove or disprove with out the actual game stats.

I agree, also I think KGB and Tanglefoot may be members of a fairly small minority of players overall: lower tier rosters who actually play/care about competing in PvP.

I obviously don't have the numbers, but from bits and pieces we've heard from the devs over the years, lower tier players don't engage with PvP much, if at all.  This makes sense to me because PvP is a bizarre pile of mechanics that don't really make any sense and are never properly explained in-game.

For all we know, this may be giving lower tier engagement a boost -- if players with one or two 5* covers and a jumble of 3*/4* previously avoided PvP completely, maybe now they're playing it during those boosted weeks.

Xception81

Looks like the prior few weeks might have been a test, or our complaining has convinced them they went too far with the boost… cause the House of X PvP boosts the 5*s only 9 levels instead. 

HoundofShadow

None of the 5* that is supposed to be boosted is in there. I think it might be too early to say that. However, if anyone can remember what the boost level was for previous House of X Event, it might be what you said.

Xception81

HoundofShadow said:

None of the 5* that is supposed to be boosted is in there. I think it might be too early to say that. However, if anyone can remember what the boost level was for previous House of X Event, it might be what you said.

Oh good point. Didn’t think about that. Now that I look closer, I see some others are 12 levels boosted. So could just be specific to this event and maybe depends on the covers you have.

Cannibalqueen

I think this is a test run.  For one thing, the chronological clumps of boosted characters just seems clunky.  But I think besides that, it’s too many boosted at one time.
its too short a cycle.  One god boost or two every time would work better I think.  

And not chronological.
in fact certain meta characters, I would think, just don’t boost them.  I mean I do want to see the total bloodbath of Okoye and BRB, iHulk boosted in this test run.  This one time.  

But after that, just take them out of the god boost rotation.  Make it a total mystery

Edit: either that, or maybe run this cycle once a year just to shake things up.  But to see this sequence happen again straight after, I can’t imagine that being good for the game.  It’s gonna start being pretty annoying.

captainheath

I took a year off MPQ, but the boosted 5's are what brought me back.  I don't play much PVP, but PVE is now different every week.  Much more interesting.

Timemachinego

I didn't mind them much at first when it was just trash heroes getting a rare day in the sun, but it's getting more and more out of control. If the boost affected MMR that would be one thing but anything under 5* play is currently taking a huge knock just to bring back some lapsed players. I've got allied 3* players that can't catch a winning fight after 500 points, seeing nothing but boosted 5s. Myself in 4 champ, I see about the same once I cross 600 or so. Half the players I used to knock up against in solid 4 roshambo are now running middling boosted 5s and I get blown out by match damage alone. I realize that this game has heavily catered to the topside for most of it's life but you're actually getting WORSE at allowing people to work their way up and that's a real damn feat.

Phumade

I be said this before.  MMR needs to be revamped!

The boost has created a new conundrum that actually can be easily addressed.  The biggest issue is that players can’t set lower defensive mmr teams.  This is commonly called the cupcake nerf and is a big reason why MMR keeps focusing on the boosted  1 cover 5* instead of the champed 4*

returning back to the open cupcake meta will smooth the play exp for the 3*/4* rosters.  

Yes that means 1* cc return, but it also means as players swap out the high level 2 cov 5* for a big champ 4*.   The 4* shows to peer players instead of the boosted 5*

BriMan2222

Xception81 said:

Looks like the prior few weeks might have been a test, or our complaining has convinced them they went too far with the boost… cause the House of X PvP boosts the 5*s only 9 levels instead. 

House of X is a special pvp event where only mutant characters are boosted, just like the villain boost pvp, or the god related characters are boosted pvp.  It was always just a small level boost in those pvps.  I would wait and see whether the next "normal" pvp has the super boost before we make any conclusions.

entrailbucket

I can't imagine them doing this just to bring back a few old PvP players.  My guess would be that they've done this to create variety and force people to recruit and use different characters, rather than using the same characters for every fight in every mode.

Of course there is no variety within a week, but week to week the changes are enormous, which results in more variety than the game has ever had.

Many players hate the change, and that's understandable -- it's quite resource-intensive to recruit and level more than two characters.

acescracked

entrailbucket said:

I can't imagine them doing this just to bring back a few old PvP players.  My guess would be that they've done this to create variety and force people to recruit and use different characters, rather than using the same characters for every fight in every mode.

Of course there is no variety within a week, but week to week the changes are enormous, which results in more variety than the game has ever had.

Many players hate the change, and that's understandable -- it's quite resource-intensive to recruit and level more than two characters.

You keep making that same point this is gonna really hurt players who only pump up the 5* meta characters. That's just not the case. Unless you have the boosted 5*s near or at 550 the hulkoyes, brb/kittys, Wanda/colossuses, Wanda/okoyes, Apoc/Wandas & et all are still gonna hit and win matches.

In karolina pvp my thor was 606 & AA was 589. I tried floating at 1k & all those teams listed above hit me just fine. As you know, if your worth 65+ points in PvP people gonna hit you. If you have dual 670s a little less.

entrailbucket

acescracked said:

entrailbucket said:

I can't imagine them doing this just to bring back a few old PvP players.  My guess would be that they've done this to create variety and force people to recruit and use different characters, rather than using the same characters for every fight in every mode.

Of course there is no variety within a week, but week to week the changes are enormous, which results in more variety than the game has ever had.

Many players hate the change, and that's understandable -- it's quite resource-intensive to recruit and level more than two characters.

You keep making that same point this is gonna really hurt players who only pump up the 5* meta characters. That's just not the case. Unless you have the boosted 5*s near or at 550 the hulkoyes, brb/kittys, Wanda/colossuses, Wanda/okoyes, Apoc/Wandas & et all are still gonna hit and win matches.

In karolina pvp my thor was 606 & AA was 589. I tried floating at 1k & all those teams listed above hit me just fine. As you know, if your worth 65+ points in PvP people gonna hit you. If you have dual 670s a little less.

So why are those players complaining?  If they're not having any problems successfully hitting the boosted guys with their meta teams, then everything is fine.  Something doesn't add up.