***** Kang (The Conqueror) *****

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  • captainheath
    captainheath Posts: 270 Mover and Shaker

    I used the trio for the first time today with two yellow giving 4 star supports. The boosts weren't even necessary. Did all of the runs and only came close to losing once. The rest of the matches were very quick.

    Personally, I wouldn't go all in on Kang. I just don't see how he doesn't get fixed when PVE just became a non-challenge.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    It's time for my occasional inception.
    So we have HE, a very old 5* who needs a rebalance. And he has an almost broken battery passive.
    Then if I was a dev I would think on changing his skills for more fun arrows mechanics worthy of the character and making him competitive, and then I would tone down his AP passive.
    Then we would win an appealing character and avenger in exchange of exploiting ways for new characters.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    18 minutes clear and 16 minutes grind on day 2.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    When was PvE last a challenge?

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    It's the timing taken. I'm just sharing potential of clearing pves quickly for those interested. If you are spending 30 minutes on clear, a reduction of 12 minutes is significant.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Hopefully they'll fix this faster than they fixed Bishop.
    Cap got fixed faster I think.

    The only communication we have from them is that they're working on making Kang better -- they're fixing his interaction with the immortal guys.

    This is how good Kang has to be, to do what he was meant to do (counter Chasm). Introducing a character who's powerful enough to do that has knock-on effects in other areas though.

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 715 Critical Contributor

    I guess I'm not seeing the problem others are seeing.

    With the right team, characters that aren't a part of the meta, Kang can be powerful and win against strong teams.

    But he's also not difficult to beat.

    So he's elevating other characters without creating an unbeatable wall that feels like punishment to face.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @HoundofShadow said:
    18 minutes clear and 16 minutes grind on day 2.

    Probably not a good event to be comparing those numbers since okoye is buffed.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    I agree somewhat. Kang resets the game to a point where all you needed to climb in PvP and be somewhat competitive was Shang-Chi. You better be prepared to take hits though.
    PvE isn’t a challenge at all once you get a deep roster and this won’t change that. We were getting 1 turn clears with a 550 Apocalypse, Kamala, BRB which means HE, Kang, and IM40 is 2 turns slow. Twelve minute clears are the fastest I’ve heard for PvE (my roster is incapable) which means 16 is still 4 minutes slow. Maybe the 12 minute clears become 9 minutes now. But we are approaching the maximum speed possible for clears without changing the UI.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think 12 minutes is when 550 Okoye is boosted, unless there's a new 550 team out there.

    I used only SC teams and Kang teams for those 18 minutes clears, and my SC is baby champed. I didn't used Okoye at all. If that's what you're referring to.

    The point is, for players who want a shot at T10 in pves, without bracket sniping and without saving 1-2 years of hoard to 550 Okoye, they have a shot using baby champed SC teams and Kang teams as long as they have the right Supports. We know that big news is coming out for Supports this month or next. So, let's see how the dev is going to rejuvenate Supports.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Blackstone said:
    I guess I'm not seeing the problem others are seeing.

    With the right team, characters that aren't a part of the meta, Kang can be powerful and win against strong teams.

    But he's also not difficult to beat.

    So he's elevating other characters without creating an unbeatable wall that feels like punishment to face.

    This all depends on your perspective. The relevant question is "can a character be overpowered on offense?"

    For players who view MPQ as a single-player game, who play events just to earn rewards, the answer is no. These folks don't care/aren't impacted by what others do. Anything that gets you to those rewards faster is a good thing.

    If you view MPQ primarily as a multiplayer game, then overpowered offensive characters present a problem. The whole game is based on speed, so making it faster for everyone else means you have to get faster too.

    It seems like the first attitude is far more common around here (to the point where those with the second attitude are just dismissed as wrong constantly).

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @HoundofShadow said:
    I think 12 minutes is when 550 Okoye is boosted, unless there's a new 550 team out there.

    I used only SC teams and Kang teams for those 18 minutes clears, and my SC is baby champed. I didn't used Okoye at all. If that's what you're referring to.

    The point is, for players who want a shot at T10 in pves, without bracket sniping and without saving 1-2 years of hoard to 550 Okoye, they have a shot using baby champed SC teams and Kang teams as long as they have the right Supports. We know that big news is coming out for Supports this month or next. So, let's see how the dev is going to rejuvenate Supports.

    Hopefully they just kill Supports which will make this a non issue

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    @HoundofShadow said:
    I think 12 minutes is when 550 Okoye is boosted, unless there's a new 550 team out there.

    >

    The point is, for players who want a shot at T10 in pves,.

    Nope. That was Colossus, Chavez, Karnak. Colossus was 650+ yes. People with deep 550 rosters have a variety of meta teams they use, depending on the opponent and boosted character list.

    My point is that the people with deep rosters probably have Hawkeye at a high level. I’m not sure how many yellow at start supports they have. All are willing to boost. So the challenge node only lasts three turns for them as well but they can still get the 1 turn kills for the majority of Pick-3.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    @killahKlown said:

    Hopefully they just kill Supports which will make this a non issue

    Supposedly they have a big rework for supports coming, but do you think they'll kill them? The problem with supports now is that there's like 20 of them, and a few are "win the game turn 2" and the rest are like "do 5% additional red match damage to villains on Thursdays."

    I assumed the rework would be fixing all the bad ones, but maybe they'll redo the good ones?

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    3 turns still seems slow. Especially with the loading of the boosts, the loading of the supports, the fortifying, then for each use of blue Kang having to create a fortified countdown. I count at least 7 delays per match in that. So this isn't much of a game changer.

    I could see maybe helping people pass the CN a little quicker but that's about it.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I remember 550 Colossus now.

    30 seconds is the fastest for most pick-3 nodes in SCL 10 with Kang team. Easy nodes take 13-15 seconds. I'll shall report any improvement in my placement after Okoye boost week is over. And you don't need 5* Hawkeye for this.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    @HoundofShadow said:
    30 seconds is the fastest for most pick-3 nodes in SCL 10 with Kang team. Easy nodes take 13-15 seconds. I'll shall report any improvement in my placement after Okoye boost week is over. And you don't need 5* Hawkeye for this.

    You’re going to have to provide receipts for anyone to believe that you don’t need Hawkeye provide blue for this to work. BRB and Polaris are too slow. Kang and IM40 only give 18 ap unless you have two yellow at start supports. So 22 with boosts, which means it’s up to rng to provide two blue matches. There aren’t many with big enough red + green nukes to kill whoever is left.

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 715 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    This all depends on your perspective. The relevant question is "can a character be overpowered on offense?"

    For players who view MPQ as a single-player game, who play events just to earn rewards, the answer is no. These folks don't care/aren't impacted by what others do. Anything that gets you to those rewards faster is a good thing.

    If you view MPQ primarily as a multiplayer game, then overpowered offensive characters present a problem. The whole game is based on speed, so making it faster for everyone else means you have to get faster too.

    It seems like the first attitude is far more common around here (to the point where those with the second attitude are just dismissed as wrong constantly).

    It wasn't my intent to dismiss anyone's perspective. I understand the importance of speed for placement rewards.

    I just don't see Kang as the problem others do. I'm not even saying anyone needs to agree with me. Just stating my perspective. Other teams can clear as quickly without the need for supports and boosts. Unless, as I said in my last comment, I'm not seeing something others are seeing.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    Nah, I wasn't trying to call you (or anybody else) out. People see the game different ways and that's ok.

    It just seems like many of these arguments aren't related to any specific character, they're related to a player's overall philosophy. If someone is saying that a particular guy is too good, and someone else's outlook on the game is such that an offensive character cannot ever be too good, then they're just arguing on completely different axes.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,722 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:
    I just want to know how to evaluate Kang. If the first case is true he is very good, if the second case is true he is far less valuable.

    Obviously, Chasm broke the game.

    I just want to know if I should waste resources on Kang or not, and without a clear explanation of AWAY I really have no idea.

    We know what AIRBORNE does and we know what INVISIBLE does...so I want to know what AWAY does.

    To be perfectly honest, my take on it is "away" is functionally exactly the same as "airborne," the only difference is one status has the "away" tag, the other the "airborne" tag. In both cases the character still counts as being in the fight (for purposes of resurrection mechanics and when a team wins,) but otherwise cannot be interacted with save by a power that explicitly interacts with characters in that status. The big difference, of course, is that there are a number of powers that interact with "airborne," at this time only Kang and Wong interact with "Away." Kang wins if all his opponents are "downed" or "Away," Wong ends "away" status if his allies are downed.

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