***** Elektra (Woman Without Fear) *****

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    It's definitely weird that basically every new 4* pushes the power creep threshold up and 5* seem so stagnant or spiky.  Maybe they feel like they can take more chances with 4* because they're limited by low health?

    I think there is an element of truth to this BUT I think that sometimes these things do then end up transferred to the 5* tier. For example - Karnak is very much an early prototype of Shang Chi. Jump in front mechanics were trialed at the 4* tier before they applied them to the 5* tier. Damage reduction goes back to Rogue & Lockjaw. Etc etc. So I think the 4* tier is used as a kind of experimental place so they can see what happens when or if they scale some powers up.
    Or maybe the Devs just like 4* better!
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    dianetics said:
    If they cared about what the player base wanted, then why don't we have Omega Red?  :wink:

    Maybe they are saving the playerbase from themselves! ;)
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    I started to play 1180 days ago.
    I didn't know a thing about 4* players 5* players or transitioning 5*s.
    Of course there was no shards, no polaris and no scl10. 
    I wanted more power. I wanted to champ a 5*. I only had 2 organical covers of kitty, 5 of cable, and 4 of kingping. 
    I thought to go with kingping as I thought his repeater was ok for dealing damage. 
    For 8 months I earned all the cps I could and I upgraded kingping paying 720 cps per power. A bit later miles became a feeder and I focus on him too.
    And I played scl to the most level I could unlock. When I was playing scl9 and I had a 12 cover kingping and 180 pulls, scl10 started and I unloaded to get a champed PX, champed Ice5 and half Carnage5. 
    And I played scl10 with them. Still not the best trio to play scl10. 
    So it's perfectly possible to play with 5*s to the top level. I did it. It's doable. Just forgetting about rankings.
    Would it better for me if I could upgrade kitty instead of kingping? Of course. Absolutely. I'd had a better time. But that won't change that it's possible even for kingping. 
    Right now there are shards and milestones. Any player can champ any 5* character even if it's a bad choice.
    By the time he learns more about the game he can hoard in order to be stronger as long as he doesn't lets any cp to be wasted.
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    Can we start thinking of good teammates for Elektra?  

    How about C5rnage, Elektra and Kitty? Once you get 10 pink ap on Elektra, chose attack tiles and see what happens.  

    Would Wanda boosts, Okoye boosts and Apoc repeater boosts increase Elektras trap dmg?

    @bad I can relate to your story. I did that minus the 720cp into 5star covers thing. 

    Started with just champing kitty to fix her 3/5 pink. Then eventually champed profx, storm, Hela and continued from there. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Colossus/Melinda May/Elektra gets my vote.

    Suggesting a non-meta to fight yellow ap with meta characters like Apocalypse and Okoye is typically a bad move. Wanda is okay if you did not choose yellow, unless you want to compensate with her blue cd.

    We need more info to see how her powers interact with other trap tiles users and other defensive characters. I realise that defensive mechanics can be buggy.
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    dianetics said:
    Looking at what she does I don't  think she will synergize well with other heroes. If we assume she can only use her own trap tiles she does little to help others on her team. She is in an outlier damage position with limited damage and expensive skills.
    Her best attribute is extra damage reduction, and the second best is stealing enemy tiles of a specific type when they are created.

    I would stick her with Wanda, Colossus, or Electro. Electro would be interesting on teams that do aoe because you could Shadow Dance every turn and possibly create strike tiles...but that is situational. In a pick 3 Wanda, Electro, and Elektra would be funny I guess, but iHulkoye meta has already been limited in pvp.

    She could be a great counter to BRB if she defaulted to protect tiles and not strikes.

    What WOULD be nice is if we had the option to default similar to when you chose taskmasters' powers.  

    So you could default attack tiles if you are running a C4rnage or c5rnage. And protect tiles if you are against a BRB. 
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    I had already thought the same thing in terms of teams. Thinking that in a pick-3 Colossus and May. But in a pick-2 was thinking Wanda or Colossus as both have their own defensive mitigation, can deal damage and don't require yellow, red or purple (only 3 for Wanda) ap.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think that having her default to strikes is the most player-friendly option.  strikes are the most valuable kind of SAP tile, so being able to steal those by default is good, even if it makes her slightly less useful against one meta character. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2022
    HoundofShadow said:
    That reply wasn't meant for 5* acquistion. It was meant for metaness of characters.

    Some have been trying to impose their views on how MPQ should be but they have been failing all these years. Because they couldn't deal with such failure, they decided that it is the dev who fails at their job by saying they don't know how to do their jobs or they don't know how to design characters, or they are out of touch. I apologise for missing out "trying to".


    Like I said, it depends on the players' goals. If you still don't believe that majority of players play casually, go join a top 5k to 10k alliance. Even a T100 alliance requirement is pretty low. Look at their scores for the next 3 months and you'll see what I'm saying. You caa preach about how to play the game "effectively" for the next few months in the chat and most of them won't even bother with your advice.

    If very casual players expect to hoard 200 LTs as quick as competitive players, they are being unrealistic. They should not be setting a goals meant for competitive players. Look, we have shards now. If they want to build meta characters faster, they can do so. In reddit, some player champed Apocalypse with the use of shards, feeders and pulls within 300 days and he's not even a whale.

    Saying that it's difficult to build meta characters are becoming more of a myth, with the introduction of shards, feeders, milestone rewards. Besides, there are 2 meta a year, and meta stores are held 3-4 times a year. So, there are plenty of opportunities to cover meta.

    The important point is all types of players exists. Just because winning matches quickly is the best way doesn't mean that it is the only way. For players who play for speed, winning matches quickly is important, but they consist of only 1 subset of the entire playerbase. Because they are many subsets of players, it's only right that the dev release characters that makes as many subsets of players as possible. Since competitive players remain a minority; therefore, 16% of 5* releases are for you. The rest is for non-meta chasing players.

    (1) We are talking about a new 5*. From a player perspective, new characters are only relevant insofar as you can roster them and use them. 5* acquisition is an essential element of the conversation unless we are just talking about fighting against Elektra.
    (2) sure, most players of MPQ are casual. But most MPQ players will also never champ a single 5*. Imagine a country where 80% of the population lives inland, and the government announces the construction of a new port on the coast. Would it be out of line for the sailing community to evaluate the merits of the new port from a sailing perspective just because 80% of the country's population will never sail?
    (3) you say that collecting 200 LT pulls is an unrealistic goal for a casual player (I basically agree), but your proposed alternative is shards? How is a casual player than can't collect 200 LTs supposed to get 5000+ shards for one 5*?
    (4) you constantly assert that forumites are myopically focusing on the admittedly small percentage of the playerbase that is competitive, but your proposed alternative is that we should instead focus on an even smaller group of unicorns who (i) play extremely casually, but (ii) come to these forums, and (iii) care deeply about the full kit of a newly released 5* that they will never acquire.  And somehow all that means the bad guys here are the ones pointing out that Elektra's red is not especially good compared to the existing powers in the game? I just can't follow that logic.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    1) New characters even at 1/1/1 is relevant for 3* or 4* players. The general advice for such players is to roster one cover and talk about pulls when they have accumulated enough LTs/CPs. Besides, the dev has never said that it's compulsory to champ all characters. 

    2 & 3) We are not in 2017 or 2018. We are in 2022 now. Shards, milestones rewards and feeders make it possible to champ 5* of their choice. There are players champing old meta 5* within 1 year of playing MPQ. I think you probably forgotten how generous milestones rewards are.

    Here's the link:
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/86097/milestone-rewards-list/p1

    Just champing 4* and collecting 5* covers alone will give players more than 5000 shards to champ a 5* of them choice. I haven't touch on feeders and gaining 3 5* shards via pulling cp tokens yet. 

    I think I said collecting 200 LTs as quickly as competitive players are unrealistic. However, if these players have a realistic timeframe, then it's fine. Being realistic means knowing your cp and LT earn rate, if your earn rate is 60 cp a week on average, then a realistic time frame is 1 year 8 months to hit 200 LTs. If your earn rate is 60 cp a week and you expect to champ new 5* every 6 months, it's unrealistic.

    4) If majority of players are not interested or can't put in the effort to play like full progression players, why should they be dreaming of champing 5* as fast as the rest who spend money or time on the game? In the first place, do they really want to champ 5* at all? It's a fact that majority of players play casually. I've said go join a top 5k or 10k alliance and watch how they play. Teach them how to play optimally and observe how many bother to respond to you. I even pointed out that the bar for T100 alliance is low.

    I said that forummers largely consists of competitive or min-max players. I'm actually confused about your i, ii and iii?? Who are they?

    As for Elektra's power, it's bad because it doesn't fit a certain criteria for some players. And on top of that, I don't remember responding to you regarding her red. I think I was responding to another player about how 9 ap for 20k damage is low or something to that effect.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think I said collecting 200 LTs as quickly as competitive players are unrealistic. However, if these players have a realistic timeframe, then it's fine. Being realistic means knowing your cp and LT earn rate, if your earn rate is 60 cp a week on average, then a realistic time frame is 1 year 8 months to hit 200 LTs. If your earn rate is 60 cp a week and you expect to champ new 5* every 6 months, it's unrealistic.


    Who earns 60cp a week but is still casual? hell, which casual player is going to track their CP/LT earn rates? Anyone who cares enough about the game to track their income rates is also interested enough to consider which characters are the best tools to acquire those resources.


  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Casual players, or not informed players, just will save possibly 30 cps and pull for it, and not caring how good is the character or even which character is featured because they even wouldn't think on champing one of them.
    When I had 10 kingping covers, the commander on my former alliance said that the best way to champ characters was to hoard. And I took those words seriously. 
    Not all players are as commited or have strong will  needed for to hoard. 
    And the forumers who usually are talking in here indeed they are, or they were.
  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Is there any way to confirm there are no plans to nerf SC shortly after this store closes?
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Precisely, if they don't care, why do you care so much about whether they could champ 5*?
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    You do not need to hoard to champ 5*s! 

    Caveat: Active players that earn around 15+ Latest pulls per week (LT + CP) can champ Latest 5*s with the help of milestones & focused shards.  Then with those new 5* champs, they can play PVE SCL 10 and get even more pulls per week to keep champing the Latest.  Classic 5*s can be slowly acquired through 4* feeders.  
    As for casual players, what is casual? 10 pulls per week? 5 pulls? Maybe just 2? If a casual player wants to champ a 5*, then they can either play more actively or slowly hoard their pulls.  It could take them a year or more to acquire enough pulls.  But active players don’t need to hoard. 
    Caveat to the Caveat: For active players, once you have a 5* fighting team and are acquiring 20+ pulls per week, then you have the flexibility to hoard while still collecting the Latest 5*s. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2022
    HoundofShadow said:
    Precisely, if they don't care, why do you care so much about whether they could champ 5*?
     

    This new forum upload image feature is excellent lol.

    The only person talking about what casuals care about is @HoundofShadow. Most of us are trying to evaluate where Elektra fits into the 5* game, because she is a 5* character.

    And I can confirm you super don't need to hoard, and you don't even need to spend either. I've never done either thing and I have 52 5* champs. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2022
    HoundofShadow said:
    Precisely, if they don't care, why do you care so much about whether they could champ 5*?

    No, it's the other way around. They don't care about fully built 5*s because they will never experience that aspect of the game, and they aren't here on the forms anyway because they don't care about that part of the game.  Great! They can be them and enjoy themselves! So why can't this thread discuss how these new 5*s fit into the meta here on the forum dedicated to the nuts and bolts of mpq
    Also, what roadwarrior said.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    Blackstone said:
    Is there any way to confirm there are no plans to nerf SC shortly after this store closes?
    I would bet my large tax refund that they won’t.  He’s perfectly balanced as a top 10 character.  Each of the top 10 do 1 - 2 things really really well, but they all have weaknesses too.  
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:
    Blackstone said:
    Is there any way to confirm there are no plans to nerf SC shortly after this store closes?
    I would bet my large tax refund that they won’t.  He’s perfectly balanced as a top 10 character.  Each of the top 10 do 1 - 2 things really really well, but they all have weaknesses too.  

    But the bottom line is that there is no such confirmation. demi/d3 reserve the right to change any character at any time and we players should always consider that when we decide how to spend resources in this game (both digital resources and real world $).

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