***** Elektra (Woman Without Fear) *****

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Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    Top 20 is probably about right, and that is *absolutely fine*.  If there was a stronger strike tile metagame at the 5* tier, she'd be higher than that. 

    At my tier I will probably never see her unless she's boosted, but I'll probably use her when she's boosted, and she'll be somewhere between ok and good.
  • Seph1roth5
    Seph1roth5 Posts: 481 Mover and Shaker
    Math all you want, the real way to see if a character is powerful/good is how often they come up in pvp.  Gotta say, I've NEVER seen sersi or big wheel.  Seen maybe 1 gamora/ultron every couple weeks, MAYBE.  And then it's a "oh good I can stomp this team"

    So yeah play who you want/everyone's good/let's all hug a rainbow.  I'm going to keep hoarding for 2/3 LL that are don't suck lol.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    Because of my restart I think more about the latest 5*s than the established meta Classics.  Meaning, how good are the Latest and do they work together?  Most people I talk to about this game have champed all the meta Classic 5*s, but they’re certainly not representative of all players.  

    What about new players that just started champing 5*s? Or ones that have no 5* champs but a hoard instead?  Should they listen to our comments and skip Elektra because she’s not top 10?  I wouldn’t advise that.  Her yellow power alone makes her viable.  
    She’s certainly playable in my MMR.  She could be paired with Sersi to feed her yellow & red.  From the 4* tier, Clagger can constantly add yellow tiles.  Melinda could constantly feed her Red and provide a 2nd stun color too.  
    Can we have another character category of “Not bad as one of your first 5* champs”? 
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    Seph1roth5 said:
    Math all you want, the real way to see if a character is powerful/good is how often they come up in pvp.  Gotta say, I've NEVER seen sersi or big wheel.  Seen maybe 1 gamora/ultron every couple weeks, MAYBE.  And then it's a "oh good I can stomp this team"

    So yeah play who you want/everyone's good/let's all hug a rainbow.  I'm going to keep hoarding for 2/3 LL that are don't suck lol.

    I was talking to somebody in my alliance last night about entering into 5* pvp as he is about to champ the group from the last store.
    I have about a dozen champ 5s in the 450-460 range. And I'm pretty much seeing Wanda/Colossus, BRB/Kitty or Polaris, ShangChi/Other and Boosted 5s. Occasionally I will see Profx/Onslaught and Hulkoye. Then for random character teams I see mostly Apocalypse, Ghostpool and Killmonger.
    For the characters that have come out in the last year I see Wanda, Colossus and ShangChi and thats pretty much it unless the rest are boosted. I can probably count on my hands the amount of times I've seen the others unboosted.
    Is that what everybody else sees in their pvp?
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's just so weird that we can only handle the extremes of this argument. 

    On one side are players who say that anyone who's not "meta" is worthless trash.

    On the other side we now have players who are saying that all characters are equally good (maybe this is just that one player though).

    Both players are absolutely right, in their own way, but I wish they weren't.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:
    Seph1roth5 said:
    Math all you want, the real way to see if a character is powerful/good is how often they come up in pvp.  Gotta say, I've NEVER seen sersi or big wheel.  Seen maybe 1 gamora/ultron every couple weeks, MAYBE.  And then it's a "oh good I can stomp this team"

    So yeah play who you want/everyone's good/let's all hug a rainbow.  I'm going to keep hoarding for 2/3 LL that are don't suck lol.

    I was talking to somebody in my alliance last night about entering into 5* pvp as he is about to champ the group from the last store.
    I have about a dozen champ 5s in the 450-460 range. And I'm pretty much seeing Wanda/Colossus, BRB/Kitty or Polaris, ShangChi/Other and Boosted 5s. Occasionally I will see Profx/Onslaught and Hulkoye. Then for random character teams I see mostly Apocalypse, Ghostpool and Killmonger.
    For the characters that have come out in the last year I see Wanda, Colossus and ShangChi and thats pretty much it unless the rest are boosted. I can probably count on my hands the amount of times I've seen the others unboosted.
    Is that what everybody else sees in their pvp?
    I’m seeing the same thing as you and I have just 1 Champ: Shang @ 450.  If we rank characters by how much we see them in PVP, then Apocalypse is far from #1.  More like #10 (the crowd gasps).  About half of the matches consist of the boosted 5*s for the week with the other half being the top 10 meta.  It’s a good variety and not all Wanda/Colossus.  Surprisingly, I have been seeing Gamora.  
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    It's just so weird that we can only handle the extremes of this argument. 

    On one side are players who say that anyone who's not "meta" is worthless trash.

    On the other side we now have players who are saying that all characters are equally good (maybe this is just that one player though).

    Both players are absolutely right, in their own way, but I wish they weren't.
    Who’s saying all characters are equally good?  I hope you didn’t get that impression from me.  I think some are better than others, but you also have to work with what you got.  
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:
    entrailbucket said:
    It's just so weird that we can only handle the extremes of this argument. 

    On one side are players who say that anyone who's not "meta" is worthless trash.

    On the other side we now have players who are saying that all characters are equally good (maybe this is just that one player though).

    Both players are absolutely right, in their own way, but I wish they weren't.
    Who’s saying all characters are equally good?  I hope you didn’t get that impression from me.  I think some are better than others, but you also have to work with what you got.  
    No, it's the player who explicitly keeps saying that all characters are equally good because they do different things.  In the Abigail thread he was arguing that she's just as good as Apocalypse.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse is one of the Three Damage Multipliers. Dot. That is the peak of this game. Nothing is better than to increase the damage of others so there is no better characters than apocalypse, okoye and SW.

    He is not the best on defense as AI will misuse his yellow. And a lot of new characters have their best power on yellow like elektra so both won't be compatibles. 
    Well, those facts don't make that apocalypse is still one of the best .
    SW is a slower damage multiplier but she is great defensively, more than apocalypse and okoye, so she is more popular. 
    Also SW boost more effectively godboosted characters. 
    And if another character multiplying damage appeared it will be another character which won't be compared with any other. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think it’s even more important for New Players to compare the attainable new characters to the harder to get good characters you are up against, because these are the tools you have to use against them. That was my experience transitioning with a single 5 at least.
  • Seph1roth5
    Seph1roth5 Posts: 481 Mover and Shaker
    I'm not even looking for a super meta char to bust open my LL hoard.  Last time I did it was for scarlet witch/ronan/knull.

    SW - I liked her ap regen, damage reduction, and the blue power if it came up (rarely does)
    ronan - I liked his multiplying blues, big countdown hit for taking out annoying 4* in pvp
    Knull - Liked his general beefiness, steady damage, and purple power which rarely comes up for me.

    All 3 had basically 1 power each that I thought was really good/interesting, one that seemed good, and the other was unimportant.  I mainly polaris/brb in pvp but sometimes swap to apocalypse/sw for when special tiles are bad or I just want a good beatdown.

    Sw was by far the most used for me out of all of those, since her AP generation can help with anyone else.  Ronan I've used some here and there, whenever capt marvel 4* is powered up or there's a fight vs 1 or 2 people.  Knull I'll use if I have a 3rd slot and don't know what to do with it.

    I just don't see many of the 5* that came out since that trio being that useful to me.  I would've liked a Shang Chi or Odin, but never liked the rest of their LL pack.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bad said:
    Apocalypse is one of the Three Damage Multipliers. Dot. That is the peak of this game. Nothing is better than to increase the damage of others so there is no better characters than apocalypse, okoye and SW.

    He is not the best on defense as AI will misuse his yellow. And a lot of new characters have their best power on yellow like elektra so both won't be compatibles. 
    Well, those facts don't make that apocalypse is still one of the best .
    SW is a slower damage multiplier but she is great defensively, more than apocalypse and okoye, so she is more popular. 
    Also SW boost more effectively godboosted characters. 
    And if another character multiplying damage appeared it will be another character which won't be compared with any other. 
    I respectfully disagree.  Any character power can be amplified to the point of overpowering all others.  What if there was a power that drained 75% of your AP every turn? Or a power that added 10K in protect strength each turn?  Or a power that healed your team for 30K each turn?  Or a power that generated 5 AP in all colors each turn? Or a power that stuns the enemy team each turn? 

    Any of those extreme powers would dominate the game and be considered the best.  Remember the broken Gambit era?  He wasn’t a damage increaser but dominated the game.  OML healing used to dominate.  Thor’s AP generation used to dominate.  Now Wanda & Colossus damage reduction is dominating.  Who knows what will dominate in the future?  Continuous Team invisibility?  Winfinite combos? Perhaps enemy level reduction powers?  
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I think it’s even more important for New Players to compare the attainable new characters to the harder to get good characters you are up against, because these are the tools you have to use against them. That was my experience transitioning with a single 5 at least.
    This is a huge problem that gets short shift around here because reasons, I guess.  These super old Classics like Okoye and Apocalypse (or even SW/Colossus, who are getting older) are hard for new players to get ahold of, and most vets like it that way.

    If there was real power creep, new players would be fine because these old characters would be outclassed by the new stuff.  Instead they're stuck chasing down 3-year-old Classics, or they get to try to beat Apocalypse with Abigail Brand.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    We’ve had a string of “fun” or “interesting” characters lately, and while that’s fun and interesting, unless you landed Shang-Chi you are probably really struggling these days in single 5* MMR.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    We’ve had a string of “fun” or “interesting” characters lately, and while that’s fun and interesting, unless you landed Shang-Chi you are probably really struggling these days in single 5* MMR.
    Right, but I think this Elektra is the best we’ve gotten since Shang.  I’m not saying she’s as good as Shang, but better than the last 5. 
  • tonypq
    tonypq Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2022
    Personally I feel in the past,  4s were what devs experimented with more regarding ideas for new abilities and concepts. Whereas 5s were a bit more solid release to release and the 4s weren't too spectacular. 

    These days I feel like thats been flipped around. At least to me it seems the 4s these days are more well thought out, fun and functional. The 5s seem to be the guinea pigs now.  Almost like they're being developed from a grab bag of discarded ideas or concepts that didn't quite make the cut on previous releases. It's painful when they miss the mark on so many 5s as they clog up the LL store for months. As many 4s as we have now, why some of the coolest abilities keep going 4s and not 5s is beyond me. 

    It's even worse for new or less informed players who don't know enough to realize how bad some of the new 5s are. Especially if whats in LLs most times of the year is what they try to leap into the 5 tier with. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's definitely weird that basically every new 4* pushes the power creep threshold up and 5* seem so stagnant or spiky.  Maybe they feel like they can take more chances with 4* because they're limited by low health?
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,318 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think they really do need to allow players to choose where most countdown tiles in this game go for most countdown creating powers.  The fact you need to wait for the countdown to occur is already a drawback for most powers and then random placement is just the topping of what else makes this power worse.  If it is a fortified tile then fine, let it be random but if it is unfortified, make it a tactical choice by the player.  Repeaters can stay random since in effect they can fire multiple times but even some of the weaker repeater tiles could be made player's placement choice.  This still wouldn't make countdown powers better than instant or passive powers but it would at least not make them, generally, clearly worse in the vast majority of cases.  
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,318 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2022
    Bad said:
    Apocalypse is one of the Three Damage Multipliers. Dot. That is the peak of this game. Nothing is better than to increase the damage of others so there is no better characters than apocalypse, okoye and SW.

    He is not the best on defense as AI will misuse his yellow. And a lot of new characters have their best power on yellow like elektra so both won't be compatibles. 
    Well, those facts don't make that apocalypse is still one of the best .
    SW is a slower damage multiplier but she is great defensively, more than apocalypse and okoye, so she is more popular. 
    Also SW boost more effectively godboosted characters. 
    And if another character multiplying damage appeared it will be another character which won't be compared with any other. 
    Shang-Chi has something to say about your premise there. He don't need no multiplying (or health packs for that matter) just feeders, leave the damage to him.  


  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    Shang-Chi absolutely multiplies his own damage, by a ludicrous amount. He doesn’t multiply Allie’s like the others, but the only reason he is awesome and not just 2* Bullseye or Karnak is the self enhancement

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