***** Elektra (Woman Without Fear) *****

13567…13

Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here are the defensive characters in 5* land:

    Wanda, Colossus, Odin, Mr Sinister, BRB.

    Speaking of Melinda May, I feel like pairing her with Elektra and 5* Colossus. 

    Here's the play:
    In shield sim, Colossus will be able to trigger Melinda May's passive ap gain every turn, unless your opponents are Prof X, Colossus or BRB/Kitty. You will gain an extra 3 yellow aps every turn because of Colossus' match damage and due to his strongest colour being yellow.

    Player's side:
    T1: gain 3 yellow ap via MM.
    T2: gain 3 yellow ap via MM.
    T3: fire Elektra's yellow; gain 3 yellow ap via MM
    T4: 3 + 1 yellow ap via her trap tile + 3 from MM = 7
    T5: fire Elektra's yellow, 7-6+3 = 4 yellow aps

    Matching yellow and enemy cascading can speed up the process by a couple turn.

    You probably can keep doing this until you run out of yellow tiles. You have two different colour stuns if you need them, and 270 Melinda May provides some small healing and also helps to reduce recovered from being stunned opponent's power and match damage by 1566. I think we have quite a number of damage reduction going with this team.
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    Is she a BRB counter?

    Does it count as "BrB" making protect tiles when his countdown generates them?

    Looks good, red stun is interesting. We need more non blue stuns :D. 
  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker
    Her red could be nice with 5* Hawkeye and Coulson.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think people have gotten spoiled with 7 AP powers and think that 9 AP is too much.  Did we think Dr Strange’s 9 Blue AP stun & hit was too expensive? No, we thought it was great.  Any power between 7 - 9 AP takes 3 matches to get anyway (unless you’re constantly using AP boosts).  Elektra’s 9 Red AP stun & hit is not expensive, it’s priced correctly for what you get.  

    Her yellow is an amazing bargain though.  With a yellow battery, this would be even better. 

    I would bet her purple passive steals Grocket strikes on battle start, buffs them and reduces the enemies. Defaulting to strikes is more useful than attack or protect.  
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    bbigler said:
    I think people have gotten spoiled with 7 AP powers and think that 9 AP is too much.  Did we think Dr Strange’s 9 Blue AP stun & hit was too expensive? No, we thought it was great.  Any power between 7 - 9 AP takes 3 matches to get anyway (unless you’re constantly using AP boosts).  Elektra’s 9 Red AP stun & hit is not expensive, it’s priced correctly for what you get.  

    Her yellow is an amazing bargain though.  With a yellow battery, this would be even better. 

    I would bet her purple passive steals Grocket strikes on battle start, buffs them and reduces the enemies. Defaulting to strikes is more useful than attack or protect.  
    It will be interesting if it does, I remember they had to change enemy C5rnage passive not to work before the first player turn.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It looks like she can steal 1 SAP tile whenever one is created. So, she'll be able to steal R4G's tile. And when Polaris matches and creates strike tiles, she will steal one per activation. Also, she reduces the strength of these tiles by 86.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    at 5 covers, she steals 3 SAP tiles; I'm curioushow that interacts with Colossus or similar "creates enemy strike" characters? Seems like she could be passively good against those players running Valkyrie/Shang-Chi in PVP in that way. I never see those people in my MMR, but i've seen plenty of y'all say you do it.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    Srheer0 said:
    Is she a BRB counter?

    Does it count as "BrB" making protect tiles when his countdown generates them?

    Looks good, red stun is interesting. We need more non blue stuns :D. 
    It does seem like that is what happens, because if you get his blue as a team up, and he is not present in the battle, the countdown appears and does not create protect tiles for you.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:
    I think people have gotten spoiled with 7 AP powers and think that 9 AP is too much.  Did we think Dr Strange’s 9 Blue AP stun & hit was too expensive? No, we thought it was great.  Any power between 7 - 9 AP takes 3 matches to get anyway (unless you’re constantly using AP boosts).  Elektra’s 9 Red AP stun & hit is not expensive, it’s priced correctly for what you get.  


    Comparing a classic not rebalanced power with a new character released doesn't talks really good about the new character. 
    The only good thing about elektra's stun is that it's on red. Ghostpool at the very least can re-stun if matched.
    The power needs something more to be ok.
    A bit damage or less AP.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not sure how much more damage one is expecting from her red.

    Apocalypse's red deals 2344 damage per ap. 

    Ghostpool's 2080 damage per ap.

    Elektra's 2317 damage per ap, which is close to Apocalypse's, except that it's delayed for 2 turns.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,740 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    at 5 covers, she steals 3 SAP tiles; I'm curioushow that interacts with Colossus or similar "creates enemy strike" characters? Seems like she could be passively good against those players running Valkyrie/Shang-Chi in PVP in that way. I never see those people in my MMR, but i've seen plenty of y'all say you do it.

    She only steals 1 passively. The steal 3 costs 10 purple so it's expensive. She will steal way more via her passive power than the active component unless you are in very long battles.
    There are a few characters who only create a single tile (Knull , Ultron) and in those cases she will steal it immediately every turn.
    KGB
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    There are huge differences between all these powers though - Apocalypse just does his damage immediately for less AP, and if his yellow is in play, add 40k to the total. Ghostpool does the stun immediately along with the damage, then leaves you a supplemental cd you can chase to keep the stun going while powering up another fire. Elektra does the stun after needing more AP to fire, then the vulnerable CD has to burn down to generate the damage condition. I think it's a demonstrably less good power, though I won't necessarily say it's a bad power.

    I will say though that comparing it to 5trange back when he was new is not as helpful as comparing it to 5trange in the context of today's game, the one we are all playing, and the one this brand new character is being released into. She seems like someone you will absolutely want to bring 50% Thor along with to power her on paper. She could be quite annoying with a power cheapener strictly on the basis of her yellow.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm not sure how much more damage one is expecting from her red.

    Apocalypse's red deals 2344 damage per ap. 

    Ghostpool's 2080 damage per ap.

    Elektra's 2317 damage per ap, which is close to Apocalypse's, except that it's delayed for 2 turns.


    Apocalypse also does 4 boostable hits that keep going even if they down the target. They also ignore protect tiles.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    People *have* gotten spoiled with 7ap powers!  That's not their fault though.  Why wouldn't you compare characters' powers?  A power that costs 9 should always be a little stronger than a power that costs 7, because it's a little more expensive.  Elektra's red doesn't "feel" like a 9ap power in today's game.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Unless you are using boost, all their powers require 3 match-3. Besides, we are comparing just the red power.

    If we want to add in Apocalypse's yellow boost, then we need to throw in Elektra's yellow to even out the field.

    450 Apocalypse's red will deal 12886 x 4 or 51, 544 damage. So, the first 3 hit of Apocalypse's red will be reduced by 50%. So, we have (6443 * 3) + 12886 = 32, 215 damage. So, his damage per ap will be 32315/14 = 2301.07

    Elektra, on the other hand, would have dealt a total of 20851 + (8688*3) = 46915 damage. Her damage per ap would be 3127.66.

    As you can see, Elektra's damage per ap on a level playing field is even better than Apocalypse and his boost. 

    What can be seen is that they have different roles. Apocalypse is an all out offense character, whereas Elektra is a tactical/defensive character. In 1 v 1, Elektra can be better than Apocalypse.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Unless you are using boost, all their powers require 3 match-3. Besides, we are comparing just the red power.

    If we want to add in Apocalypse's yellow boost, then we need to throw in Elektra's yellow to even out the field.

    450 Apocalypse's red will deal 12886 x 4 or 51, 544 damage. So, the first 3 hit of Apocalypse's red will be reduced by 50%. So, we have (6443 * 3) + 12886 = 32, 215 damage. So, his damage per ap will be 32315/14 = 2301.07

    Elektra, on the other hand, would have dealt a total of 20851 + (8688*3) = 46915 damage. Her damage per ap would be 3127.66.

    As you can see, Elektra's damage per ap on a level playing field is even better than Apocalypse and his boost. 

    What can be seen is that they have different roles. Apocalypse is an all out offense character, whereas Elektra is a tactical/defensive character. In 1 v 1, Elektra can be better than Apocalypse.
    Now you need to specify which one is the AI and which one is the player. 
    Because apoc wouldn't be so dumb as to fire his red knowing that it will be reducted, he will be damaged and she will get 3 yellow. 
    That example doesn't satisfy me.
    And elektra red is meh. If you have a fortifying partner, ok. If not you possibly will waste 9 red just for stunning someone 2 turns. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse does all his damage immediately and it's guaranteed.  Elektra places an unfortified CD tile that does damage.  If her tile is destroyed it does 0 damage.  Calculations need to include that variance.

    Performance in 1v1 isn't really valuable.  1v1 events are what, like, 1% of the game?  Less?
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,179 Chairperson of the Boards
    I would like a mod to confirm if her passive steals 1 or 3 tiles.  Reading the description: at level 1, both the active & passive steal 1, the description for higher levels simply says Steals 2 or Steals 3 which could refer to both active & passive OR just the active. 

    It looks like an assumption that it’s only for the active, which could be true, but I want a confirmation please.  
    If she passively steals 1, then it’s not as useful against Grocket or Polaris, but the strike tile nerfing still is. Nevertheless, stealing 1 strike at a time is still very useful against a large variety of 4* & 5* characters.  
    10 AP is mighty pricey to steal 3 Attacks or Protects though and I doubt she will be used for that.  I bet she could steal all protects from BRB’s Clash of the Worthy. 
    I would say she’s going to boil down to being a character that passively steals strikes plus her yellow protect & hit traps. Her Red is a bonus, but also shouldn’t be ignored.  
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,740 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Unless you are using boost, all their powers require 3 match-3. Besides, we are comparing just the red power.


    Don't forget to consider that a match 4 can get you there in just 2 matches. Also you can get there with 2 match 3's and a match 4 in another color that nets you +1 AP from another destroyed tile in that row/column.
    I often get 7 Blue for Polaris in this manner so I know the value of a 7 AP power.
    KGB

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    There's always match-4, but none of us can guarantee a match-4 of the colour of our choice right at the start of the turn, unless we are using certain characters. Generally, it's all RNG. 

    Apocalypse red deals damage immediately but you can't choose who you want to deal the damage to because it's default to the lowest health enemy. And he can't stun opponents. As for Elektra's red getting matched, it's up to the player's skills to ensure the success of her red power. If you fire her power when there's a red match-3 available and the AI is likely to chase red, then it's on the players. 

    Since we are comparing Apocalypse with Elektra, using 1v1 will be easier. If we start using 3v3, there are a lot of possibilities to discuss and it will never end.

    If players start using their feelings to gauage how much damage should be dealt, then it's as good as saying you want more power creep faster. Her red deals 2316 damage ap, which is better than many other powers, using damage per ap as a comparison. Reduce her power to 7 ap and it's 2978.71, which would be higher than meta's. 


Categories