Difficulty Levels Based on S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels - Update (8/4/17) *Updated
Comments
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Sorry for using forum terms incorrectly. Slumming is the problem and it is not some simple issue that only impacts a few people.0
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Yes, and it impacts many, many in a positive light. Judging from your post in the SHIELD rewards thread, you've been playing just shy of a year. Do you really think you should be automatically locked into competing for the highest level rewards against the highest levelled rosters in every single event? Against vets that have spent 3 years more than you building them up?Wumpushunter said:Sorry for using forum terms incorrectly. Slumming is the problem and it is not some simple issue that only impacts a few people.
High end rosters (which does not include my very above average one nearly to the same degree) have been penalized for years if they had the audacity to take the best characters to max level. On a level playing field (i.e. the same enemies, not exponentially higher scaled ones) they SHOULD reap the best rewards. That's what a high end roster should allow you to do.3 -
Really, the biggest trick that they managed to pull with this was getting players at each other's throats over who wins/loses from the changes. When the real perpetrator that people should be pointing fingers at is D3, who creates all these problems in the first place.Wumpushunter said:Any time there is a change the side that likes the change will always accuse the other side of whining and not understanding how awesome the change really is, however they don't care they just want the change without modification. Right now SCL scaling boosts a certain group unreasonably and damages another group. No matter the size of those groups or how morally superior the group that won believes itself to be, the change must be altered to bring balance. You can't run a business by pleasing one group. Change will come eventually.
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Dude.sh81 said:
Actually yes.New McG said:
I mean, are you really playing PVE because of how engaging and interesting it is? It's the same events, same enemies, over and over again, and you get maybe two new events a YEAR. PVE is a mindless slog, and it just got a whole lot less time-consuming for a whole lot of people.sh81 saidPart 2 is this, while its great 5*s can play PVE, how BORING IS THAT?! Seriously, Ive made the comparison to DDQ but I think its valid. I play DDQ in about 10 minutes daily, its a procession, its not interesting, and I do it only for the rewards. That is what PVE will be to 5*s now.
I play to place as high as I can, which means playing as optimally as I can, which means finding the right teams to play and performing well consistently.
The actual events themselves mean little to me, playing does and being competitive does.
And youre "whole lot of people" is the 5* tier, how large exactly do you think that is? And, honestly, does PVE hold any actual interest to you now? Or is it just a nice little cache of resources for minimal effort?
We've been playing most of these PVEs for 4 years now.
They became caches of resources for vets after the second time they ran them... back in 2013.
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I'm overall happy with this change, but I don't like it in combination with the removal of vaulting. As a 4* roster I'm of course not getting as many t10s anymore against 5* rosters once this goes live, but with most of my 4-stars fully covered it's not often that I actually "need" t10 anymore for the covers. However in the instances that I really do need t10, i.e. release events, this is going to hurt a lot more. With how hard they make it to get that 1st cover ability on a new 4* before they enter the vault, people fight tooth & nail for those t10 spots. It wasn't the end of the world though, because you knew they were going into a vault where you had a 1/12 of pulling them. For me that meant that I could reasonably expect to have a new character fully covered within 2 token cycles (~ 48 days). Now that the pool is diluted again, we're sorta back in the dark ages of not knowing how long it might take you to cover a new character. I don't know how many 5* rosters are playing worldwide, but I'd imagine there's enough of them that even t20 isn't a guarantee anymore, as I don't plan on dropping from CL8. I can only imagine this will wake up a LOT of sleeping giants. I'm glad to have vaulted characters make a return to packs, but this was the absolute furthest thing from the way we asked it to be done. But again, overall happy with the change and glad I can clear faster to put some more time back into my day. Just hoping that this "3x odds" actually holds up when I'm trying to cover the new hotness that they'll no doubt keep releasing in this new difficulty format.5
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As time goes on, people will just readjust their expectations. When cupcakes were removed from PvP, a whole host of players had high-level rewards effectively removed. They had to rebuild and work their way back.
At least this way people can choose opponents/rivals on their level. As it always should have been clearly.
Yes, 4* players won't be able to take the biggest prizes any more as their algorithm tricking is gone (soft-capped or not). But was it really fair in the first place? Hardly.
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The best rewards in CL 8 not 5 or 6, or do you advocate taking candy from babies? Should the great 5 stars take top 10 in every CL?New McG said:
Yes, and it impacts many, many in a positive light. Judging from your post in the SHIELD rewards thread, you've been playing just shy of a year. Do you really think you should be automatically locked into competing for the highest level rewards against the highest levelled rosters in every single event? Against vets that have spent 3 years more than you building them up?Wumpushunter said:Sorry for using forum terms incorrectly. Slumming is the problem and it is not some simple issue that only impacts a few people.
High end rosters (which does not include my very above average one nearly to the same degree) have been penalized for years if they had the audacity to take the best characters to max level. On a level playing field (i.e. the same enemies, not exponentially higher scaled ones) they SHOULD reap the best rewards. That's what a high end roster should allow you to do.0 -
Theres a chance of SCL9 opening, zero chance of 10. Theres no way there are enough players at that high level to fill a bracket.sh81 said:
Or, how about instead they find a solution to suit all?FokaiHI said:You guys are right. They should keep it the same. Weaker rosters should be able to place higher than better rosters. That makes sense. My bad. Placement trophies for everyone.
Open SCL 9 and 10, set the difficulties and rewards such that they present some challenge to higher rosters but are worth it, actually make it engaging to them.
And leave SCL 7 and 8 alone where it already works for 4* rosters.
Does that sound terrible to anyone?
Ill bet it sounds better to everyone though!
All they have done is made the game far to easy for 5* players, and kick those below out of placement. Its the worst of both worlds. And it really didnt need to be so.1 -
I dunno, there is such little difference in rewards between 7 and 8 that they might open both if there is a big reward jump for 9 and not as high of one from 9 to 10.nick_chicane said:
Theres a chance of SCL9 opening, zero chance of 10. Theres no way there are enough players at that high level to fill a bracket.sh81 said:
Or, how about instead they find a solution to suit all?FokaiHI said:You guys are right. They should keep it the same. Weaker rosters should be able to place higher than better rosters. That makes sense. My bad. Placement trophies for everyone.
Open SCL 9 and 10, set the difficulties and rewards such that they present some challenge to higher rosters but are worth it, actually make it engaging to them.
And leave SCL 7 and 8 alone where it already works for 4* rosters.
Does that sound terrible to anyone?
Ill bet it sounds better to everyone though!
All they have done is made the game far to easy for 5* players, and kick those below out of placement. Its the worst of both worlds. And it really didnt need to be so.0 -
It's better for the game that players are given the choice what rewards and challenges are worth their time rather than having the game punish you for pushing your roster above a certain level. As it stood, boosted 4-star heavy rosters were the kings of PvE, which was ridiculous, and now it's rosters with champed 5-stars which is more fitting. I'm not sure why you think someone who has a roster that has played four times longer than you owes you a reason for wanting to go down an SCL if they deem it to be a better use of their time.Wumpushunter said:
The best rewards in CL 8 not 5 or 6, or do you advocate taking candy from babies? Should the great 5 stars take top 10 in every CL?New McG said:
Yes, and it impacts many, many in a positive light. Judging from your post in the SHIELD rewards thread, you've been playing just shy of a year. Do you really think you should be automatically locked into competing for the highest level rewards against the highest levelled rosters in every single event? Against vets that have spent 3 years more than you building them up?Wumpushunter said:Sorry for using forum terms incorrectly. Slumming is the problem and it is not some simple issue that only impacts a few people.
High end rosters (which does not include my very above average one nearly to the same degree) have been penalized for years if they had the audacity to take the best characters to max level. On a level playing field (i.e. the same enemies, not exponentially higher scaled ones) they SHOULD reap the best rewards. That's what a high end roster should allow you to do.
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What's the difference in node/progression rewards between CL 7-8?0
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I'm squarely in 4* land, with one champed mid-tier 5, and I'm ecstatic to reclaim an extra hour to hour and a half every day. Even SCL 8 is a drop of 60ish levels off my current toughest enemies, and my scaling is nowhere near actual high end rosters.sh81 said:
And youre "whole lot of people" is the 5* tier, how large exactly do you think that is? And, honestly, does PVE hold any actual interest to you now? Or is it just a nice little cache of resources for minimal effort?
And yes, it holds the same interest as before. I'll use the best team for the event, grind stuff out 4 times, then 2-3 more times, and then do it again. Only now, that process will take almost half a day less of my life every week. The end result of which is, yes, a cache of resources for mindless time spent swapping tiles. Only way less of it than before.5 -
As far as I know, node rewards are the same across all clearance levels. For progression, it looks like there's a total of 1,050 more ISO, 50 more HP, 3 more CP and one extra Vision cover in SCL 8 than 7. That's for enemies with a maximum level increase of 85 levels (245 in SCL 7 vs. 330 in SCL 8).--Adam said:What's the difference in node/progression rewards between CL 7-8?1 -
TYVM. I've only been doing DDQ for about the last year 'just in case they fix this broken mess' so I'm way out of the loop on most things.DarthDeVo said:
As far as I know, node rewards are the same across all clearance levels. For progression, it looks like there's a total of 1,050 more ISO, 50 more HP, 3 more CP and one extra Vision cover in SCL 8 than 7. That's for enemies with a maximum level increase of 85 levels (245 in SCL 7 vs. 330 in SCL 8).--Adam said:What's the difference in node/progression rewards between CL 7-8?1 -
I have no problem admitting that 5* rosters have had a rough go of it at the PVE level with scaling, but this assessment that people with 4* rosters or the people that are gradually adding levels to their 5-stars (softcapping) are somehow "cheating" the system is starting to get extremely annoying. Even saying that the scaling algorithm screwed you over is debatable, because I'm pretty sure you experienced scaling jumps when you transitioned to the 3* and 4* levels. Why would the 5* level be any different, and why you would not expect it to be much worse, given the power difference between 4-stars and 5-star characters? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for not knowing EXACTLY what to expect from a level 400+ Bullseye or Muscle goon, but your frustration needs to be at the game and its developers, not the people who see the benefit of biding their time until they get ready to enter 5* land. It isn't OUR fault that YOU can't go back. I'm pretty sure you don't criticize people that softcap their 4-stars until they're ready to transition to the 4* level, so I'm not seeing what makes this so different. Based on the number of 5-star rosters that I personally still see snagging t10 spots in CL8, clearly it isn't the end of the world either. None of my 5-stars are ready to be champed yet, so I'm "cheating", or "gaming" the system because I can clear faster than you from time to time on less difficult opponents. OKAY
. I'm sorry that the level of MY roster is inconvenient for YOU. 4 -
Well, one major part of the problem that they are facing is that enemies scale with the expectation you will have your boosted Legendaries to get you through it. You get roughly a 16% boost in level above the highest level enemies.BoyWonder1914 said:I have no problem admitting that 5* rosters have had a rough go of it at the PVE level with scaling, but this assessment that people with 4* rosters or the people that are gradually adding levels to their 5-stars (softcapping) are somehow "cheating" the system is starting to get extremely annoying. Even saying that the scaling algorithm screwed you over is debatable, because I'm pretty sure you experienced scaling jumps when you transitioned to the 3* and 4* levels. Why would the 5* level be any different, and why you would not expect it to be much worse, given the power difference between 4-stars and 5-star characters? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for not knowing EXACTLY what to expect from a level 400+ Bullseye or Muscle goon, but your frustration needs to be at the game and its developers, not the people who see the benefit of biding their time until they get ready to enter 5* land. It isn't OUR fault that YOU can't go back. I'm pretty sure you don't criticize people that softcap their 4-stars until they're ready to transition to the 4* level, so I'm not seeing what makes this so different. Based on the number of 5-star rosters that I personally still see snagging t10 spots in CL8, clearly it isn't the end of the world either. None of my 5-stars are ready to be champed yet, so I'm "cheating", or "gaming" the system because I can clear faster than you from time to time on less difficult opponents. OKAY . I'm sorry that the level of MY roster is inconvenient for YOU.
Epic Champions don't get boosted. They get no buffer, no advantage to deal with how the enemies scale. Players with Epic Champions have told us many times about how the PVE enemies scale up to stupid amounts of health and power. It's been said enough that I have to believe it. The question I have is how they compare to roster average. Are they 50 levels over their strongest, even, lower? Regardless, we have seen in Balance of Power, Epics do tend to end up with less health at 550 than other tiers, especially when compared to Juggernaut and the Hulks. And Moonstone. All that extra... health she has.
And of course, everyone needs the Muscle to be fixed. Demi, please. Threaten is so bad. Please, fix it.0 -
Yeah I've seen a few screencaps of how much health Muscles and Moonstone have, and how powerful those strikes can get. Why they haven't felt the need to boost 5* characters for PVE is absolutely beyond me. That sounds like an awful experience, and again I'm definitely not doubting that it's awful. All I'm saying is that it isn't our fault. I have a right to say, 'wow that really sucks, let me hold off on entering 5-star land'. The decision to bide my time shouldn't subject me to accusations that I'm gaming the system. I'm surprised this issue had even lasted this long, I know not all 5* rosters are whales but with how long it takes to get to that level I'm sure some money was spent at some point. Not the way to treat your people that stuck it out with you for the longest and kept your lights on.zodiac339 said:
Well, one major part of the problem that they are facing is that enemies scale with the expectation you will have your boosted Legendaries to get you through it. You get roughly a 16% boost in level above the highest level enemies.BoyWonder1914 said:I have no problem admitting that 5* rosters have had a rough go of it at the PVE level with scaling, but this assessment that people with 4* rosters or the people that are gradually adding levels to their 5-stars (softcapping) are somehow "cheating" the system is starting to get extremely annoying. Even saying that the scaling algorithm screwed you over is debatable, because I'm pretty sure you experienced scaling jumps when you transitioned to the 3* and 4* levels. Why would the 5* level be any different, and why you would not expect it to be much worse, given the power difference between 4-stars and 5-star characters? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for not knowing EXACTLY what to expect from a level 400+ Bullseye or Muscle goon, but your frustration needs to be at the game and its developers, not the people who see the benefit of biding their time until they get ready to enter 5* land. It isn't OUR fault that YOU can't go back. I'm pretty sure you don't criticize people that softcap their 4-stars until they're ready to transition to the 4* level, so I'm not seeing what makes this so different. Based on the number of 5-star rosters that I personally still see snagging t10 spots in CL8, clearly it isn't the end of the world either. None of my 5-stars are ready to be champed yet, so I'm "cheating", or "gaming" the system because I can clear faster than you from time to time on less difficult opponents. OKAY . I'm sorry that the level of MY roster is inconvenient for YOU.
Epic Champions don't get boosted. They get no buffer, no advantage to deal with how the enemies scale. Players with Epic Champions have told us many times about how the PVE enemies scale up to stupid amounts of health and power. It's been said enough that I have to believe it. The question I have is how they compare to roster average. Are they 50 levels over their strongest, even, lower? Regardless, we have seen in Balance of Power, Epics do tend to end up with less health at 550 than other tiers, especially when compared to Juggernaut and the Hulks. And Moonstone. All that extra... health she has.
And of course, everyone needs the Muscle to be fixed. Demi, please. Threaten is so bad. Please, fix it.2 -
I don't think most actually resent the softcappers/4* rosters for winning PvE because their enemies were under-powered.
What I do think people resent is any of those same players moaning now it's been fixed and their unfair advantage taken away.
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Thing is, it's not actually fixed. Changing from a curve in scaling difficulty that rewards skill in play to sudden jumps in difficulty that rewards the biggest, heaviest bludgeon just shifts the problem in a different direction. SCL difficulty is an incomplete and lazy solution to the scaling issue that put the biggest players at a disadvantage to those still working in tier 4.Rod5 said:I don't think most actually resent the softcappers/4* rosters for winning PvE because their enemies were under-powered.
What I do think people resent is any of those same players moaning now it's been fixed and their unfair advantage taken away.1
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