New Character - Toad (Mortimer Toynbee) 4*

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:
Uh, did they nerf him again?

Edit: they did. He creates 2 charged tiles at most now. I'd have done it a different way...this feels pretty weak, but oh well. I did the whole PvP with him like this and he was still ok.

Yep. Looks like another stealth nerf.

Here's a thought: how about actually test the characters before throwing them out? I mean, shouldn't that be possible? And, if not, why not?

I'm always willing to cut them some slack on balance testing, because they don't play like we do. Plus IP2 are still really new to this.

All that said, I have no idea how Toad made it out in that state. That was egregious.

Hey, at least he got fixed pretty quick?

Totally get what you say about them not playing like we do. However, this has been going on for, what? 12 years? How about getting someone who plays like we do to actually test things before putting them in the wild?

I know, it's just a mobile game. But I guess it's a bit frustrating to continually have things like this happen. None of the teams play the way we do yet nobody else tries to play test it the way we can and figure out if something is in balance or not.

Yeah, so the problem there is that half this board thinks Toad was perfectly fine, because they just want to stomp everything in 2 seconds without thinking about it. Other communities are even worse.

Do you really want the guy who wants MPQ to just be an "I win" button helping them to design characters? How can they trust any of us to actually help them? Why should they?

Oh no, people are having fun with a new character and finding synergies, nerf them!

They already did it, and it's great!

At least they did it quickly instead of waiting for everyone to work for months on him! Maybe next time they could even test the character first, or proofread!

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@ViralCore said:
I agree that they should take chances and be quick about rebalancing. My problem is that they pick and chose. 1-character-infinites should not exist.

Toad’s rebalance is noticeably different and that’s a good thing. Unfortunately they refuse to do the same about Hawkeye. His purple cost should be bumped up and the amount of free ap should be reduced. It’s basically the same rebalance as toad.

You really gotta let the HE thing go, he's fine. At max level he has less than 100k health, he's fairly easily managed. And if there weren't supports that gave 6-12 AP to start he would barely be in any conversations.

Exactly!

Who cares if some brand new 3* player can stomp your lvl672 team over and over again for 75 points a hit? You can "easily manage" to hit those retaliations for 5 points each!

Yeah yeah yeah, we get it. Nerf everyone into oblivion, let chaos reign, antagonize people on the boards by taking things purposefully (hopefully) out of context. We get the schtick by now.

Explain how I took what you said out of context.

You are purposely disregarding and minimizing others' playstyle when you make comments like the one you made. If you don't want to play PvP competitively, good for you. Other players do and "stop complaining, he's easy to beat, who cares" is not a productive comment and does not address their concerns.

First, twisting "easily manage" to be in regards to the retaliation in a sarcastic fashion, an EB specialty!

Second, increasingly few of your comments are productive. The only thing you do is shut down concerns that don't revolve around "nerf everything so matches can go 10 minutes and no one invests in anything"

Third, what's not productive is the person who made a thread dedicated to nerfing HE shoehorning his complaint into a post about Toad, on the Toad page. He'll say it to anyone and everyone because the AI beat him one too many times with a HE he left out.

Fourth, the concerns were addressed in my post. As I said, if there weren't supports granting AP and letting players or AI fire powers immediately in PVP, HE would be a non-issue. The issue isn't HE, it's supports. But that doesn't fit your "ruin all the characters" gimmick.

That player is a 13-year vet, like me, with a million 550s, like me, who's a competitive player, like I am. Both of us have done more (and spent more) to support this game than you have, or ever will. Reducing his nuanced, informed argument to "he wiped to Hawkeye a few times" is exactly what you're accusing me of doing.

I don't care what you think of me or my comments. Toad got nerfed, and it's great. I "invested" in the cover pack for him (did you???) and I'm happy that I can use him to play MPQ now, instead of using him as an "I win" button to cheese fights.

Ah there's the classic condescension 😂 "I've played blah blah blah with a blah roster and have spent blah and no one will ever be me because my farts smell the best no one loves them like I do". For being so "competitive" you'd think you'd spend more time playing the game than being a petulant child and alienating everyone you come across.

You sure you don't go by Daiches on Reddit? Because you both seem to go out of your way to dissuade anyone from enjoying the game (or even playing it at all) any other way than how you deem to be the correct way with the level of snide nonsense you spew hourly.

If you can only enjoy the game by mashing one button over and over again until you win, I feel sorry for you. You should try playing MPQ sometime, it's really fun!

Anyway, scoreboard. Toad got nerfed, it's over. One of us was right about this (and it wasn't you). Hopefully they'll come for Hawkeye soon.

God you're annoying. It's no wonder you have to spend all your time trolling around the boards. You didn't win. No one won. The devs made a decision on a character, which had less than nothing to do with you and your loud, asinine opinions. Your imaginary scoreboard doesn't exist, it never did. But I'm sure you'll work your narcissism to twist that somehow into you being the holy messiah. For someone who plays "competitively" (lol), you sure seem real hard-pressed to make the game longer and making top placement more difficult. Real competitive🙄

And yeah, most games can be boiled down to mashing buttons until you win....that's how you play literally anything that isn't cookie clicker. How fun!

I wonder, even with his recent changes, if you all think he'll ascend well and get a good numbers boost (or increased charged tiles upon ascension?) and become a target for players?

As EB mentioned previously, he teams nicely with M'Baku + 3a5 Namor and so many others. Maybe he's the next 'chase'?

Thoughts?

@DAZ0273 said:

@LavaManLee said:

@entrailbucket said:
Uh, did they nerf him again?

Edit: they did. He creates 2 charged tiles at most now. I'd have done it a different way...this feels pretty weak, but oh well. I did the whole PvP with him like this and he was still ok.

Yep. Looks like another stealth nerf.

Here's a thought: how about actually test the characters before throwing them out? I mean, shouldn't that be possible? And, if not, why not?

Not really a stealth nerf when they announced he had gone out too broken and said they were looking at him again.

It is going to take a while for them to get up to speed: for example they didn't know that Juggs/Sam is a thing.

Well, it actually IS a stealth nerf if they already nerfed him once and then did it again without announcing that they were going to actually do it. Just saying "we are going to nerf him" doesn't tell us what the nerf actually will be and when it occurs. So, it is a stealth nerf in the since that it just kind of happened without any announcement about what would happen.

Semantics, I know, but there's a difference between saying you are going to nerf without any detail and then just doing the nerf without telling us what it will be. The first nerf, they kind of announced. This second one they did not.

@amigopdude22 said:

@ViralCore said:
I agree that they should take chances and be quick about rebalancing. My problem is that they pick and chose. 1-character-infinites should not exist.

Toad’s rebalance is noticeably different and that’s a good thing. Unfortunately they refuse to do the same about Hawkeye. His purple cost should be bumped up and the amount of free ap should be reduced. It’s basically the same rebalance as toad.

You really gotta let the HE thing go, he's fine. At max level he has less than 100k health, he's fairly easily managed. And if there weren't supports that gave 6-12 AP to start he would barely be in any conversations.

Just because he's easy to kill doesn't mean he's fine. Again, NO level 166 should be able to single handedly be abe to take out 3 672s (no matter how long it takes). You do realize leveling systems is a thing right?

I generally only post about nerfs when they're stupidly obvious. I was one of the first to advocate for Gambit, Bishop, Hammer Cap, Chasm, Thor, and Polaris nerfs - all of those nerfs affected me since I already had them maxed. Even now, I have 3 copies of May (levels 469, 370, 266) and 4 copies of Hawkeye at 550. I will keep advocating for May and Hawkeye nerfs.

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@ViralCore said:
I agree that they should take chances and be quick about rebalancing. My problem is that they pick and chose. 1-character-infinites should not exist.

Toad’s rebalance is noticeably different and that’s a good thing. Unfortunately they refuse to do the same about Hawkeye. His purple cost should be bumped up and the amount of free ap should be reduced. It’s basically the same rebalance as toad.

You really gotta let the HE thing go, he's fine. At max level he has less than 100k health, he's fairly easily managed. And if there weren't supports that gave 6-12 AP to start he would barely be in any conversations.

Exactly!

Who cares if some brand new 3* player can stomp your lvl672 team over and over again for 75 points a hit? You can "easily manage" to hit those retaliations for 5 points each!

Yeah yeah yeah, we get it. Nerf everyone into oblivion, let chaos reign, antagonize people on the boards by taking things purposefully (hopefully) out of context. We get the schtick by now.

Explain how I took what you said out of context.

You are purposely disregarding and minimizing others' playstyle when you make comments like the one you made. If you don't want to play PvP competitively, good for you. Other players do and "stop complaining, he's easy to beat, who cares" is not a productive comment and does not address their concerns.

First, twisting "easily manage" to be in regards to the retaliation in a sarcastic fashion, an EB specialty!

Second, increasingly few of your comments are productive. The only thing you do is shut down concerns that don't revolve around "nerf everything so matches can go 10 minutes and no one invests in anything"

Third, what's not productive is the person who made a thread dedicated to nerfing HE shoehorning his complaint into a post about Toad, on the Toad page. He'll say it to anyone and everyone because the AI beat him one too many times with a HE he left out.

Fourth, the concerns were addressed in my post. As I said, if there weren't supports granting AP and letting players or AI fire powers immediately in PVP, HE would be a non-issue. The issue isn't HE, it's supports. But that doesn't fit your "ruin all the characters" gimmick.

That player is a 13-year vet, like me, with a million 550s, like me, who's a competitive player, like I am. Both of us have done more (and spent more) to support this game than you have, or ever will. Reducing his nuanced, informed argument to "he wiped to Hawkeye a few times" is exactly what you're accusing me of doing.

I don't care what you think of me or my comments. Toad got nerfed, and it's great. I "invested" in the cover pack for him (did you???) and I'm happy that I can use him to play MPQ now, instead of using him as an "I win" button to cheese fights.

Ah there's the classic condescension 😂 "I've played blah blah blah with a blah roster and have spent blah and no one will ever be me because my farts smell the best no one loves them like I do". For being so "competitive" you'd think you'd spend more time playing the game than being a petulant child and alienating everyone you come across.

You sure you don't go by Daiches on Reddit? Because you both seem to go out of your way to dissuade anyone from enjoying the game (or even playing it at all) any other way than how you deem to be the correct way with the level of snide nonsense you spew hourly.

If you can only enjoy the game by mashing one button over and over again until you win, I feel sorry for you. You should try playing MPQ sometime, it's really fun!

Anyway, scoreboard. Toad got nerfed, it's over. One of us was right about this (and it wasn't you). Hopefully they'll come for Hawkeye soon.

God you're annoying. It's no wonder you have to spend all your time trolling around the boards. You didn't win. No one won. The devs made a decision on a character, which had less than nothing to do with you and your loud, asinine opinions. Your imaginary scoreboard doesn't exist, it never did. But I'm sure you'll work your narcissism to twist that somehow into you being the holy messiah. For someone who plays "competitively" (lol), you sure seem real hard-pressed to make the game longer and making top placement more difficult. Real competitive🙄

And yeah, most games can be boiled down to mashing buttons until you win....that's how you play literally anything that isn't cookie clicker. How fun!

You both had opposing opinions, and the developers agreed with his. Twice, actually - two nerfs. So technically, his opinion was correct. Also, he never claimed their decision was based on his opinion.

By the way, yes, top placement is supposed to be difficult. Are you one of those "everyone deserves a ribbon" people?

@MCPenance said:
I wonder, even with his recent changes, if you all think he'll ascend well and get a good numbers boost (or increased charged tiles upon ascension?) and become a target for players?

As EB mentioned previously, he teams nicely with M'Baku + 3a5 Namor and so many others. Maybe he's the next 'chase'?

Thoughts?

Looking at the the 480 loaner in Shield Training (Thing node). The Blue passive at 5 covers does 32K damage (it's set to 3 covers in training so it's only doing 15K so you might not have noticed how big a hit it does) EVERYTIME someone on either team fires a Blue/Black/Purple power (makes Strange's Yellow look like a joke).

If that number doesn't change that's an incredible amount of damage. You can bring someone with cheap blue/black/purple powers and supports and do like 100K damage on turn 0 by firing their powers a couple times (even Toad firing his own Purple 2x might kill 1 character). At 550 he might be doing 50K damage or more which would totally shut down the enemy team firing those powers for fear of self-killing their own team.

KGB

@KGB said:

@MCPenance said:
I wonder, even with his recent changes, if you all think he'll ascend well and get a good numbers boost (or increased charged tiles upon ascension?) and become a target for players?

As EB mentioned previously, he teams nicely with M'Baku + 3a5 Namor and so many others. Maybe he's the next 'chase'?

Thoughts?

Looking at the the 480 loaner in Shield Training (Thing node). The Blue passive at 5 covers does 32K damage (it's set to 3 covers in training so it's only doing 15K so you might not have noticed how big a hit it does) EVERYTIME someone on either team fires a Blue/Black/Purple power (makes Strange's Yellow look like a joke).

If that number doesn't change that's an incredible amount of damage. You can bring someone with cheap blue/black/purple powers and supports and do like 100K damage on turn 0 by firing their powers a couple times (even Toad firing his own Purple 2x might kill 1 character). At 550 he might be doing 50K damage or more which would totally shut down the enemy team firing those powers for fear of self-killing their own team.

KGB

Yeah I noticed they cranked the damage WAY up in exchange for less charged tiles. It's actually a decent compromise!

I'd just like to know what happened. They announced they were hitting him yesterday, and then he ate a small nerf that didn't change much if anything. Then much later in the day he got set to his current state. Was the first change a mistake that wasn't supposed to go out at all? Did they evaluate that change and then decide to do the second one?

@KGB said:

@ViralCore said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@ViralCore said:
I agree that they should take chances and be quick about rebalancing. My problem is that they pick and chose. 1-character-infinites should not exist.

Toad’s rebalance is noticeably different and that’s a good thing. Unfortunately they refuse to do the same about Hawkeye. His purple cost should be bumped up and the amount of free ap should be reduced. It’s basically the same rebalance as toad.

You really gotta let the HE thing go, he's fine. At max level he has less than 100k health, he's fairly easily managed. And if there weren't supports that gave 6-12 AP to start he would barely be in any conversations.

Just because he's easy to kill doesn't mean he's fine. Again, NO level 166 should be able to single handedly be abe to take out 3 672s (no matter how long it takes). You do realize leveling systems is a thing right?

I will keep advocating for May and Hawkeye nerfs.

All this is just about taking PvP losses. The problem with these nerfs is they affect the rest of the game which is VASTLY more than L672 PvP (your PvP is probably less than a 1/10 of 1% of the game play in MPQ).

This is why I suggested a cool down system for PvP play to prevent HE and others from being able to winfinite 672 characters. That should satisfy you and EB and others while preserving those characters for PvE etc.

KGB

Why should PvP be treated differently than PvE though?

If small-roster players are using infinite guys to punch way up in PvE, I think that's a problem too. That suggests a problem with gating -- why are low level players being allowed into events that are much too difficult for them?

The game needs a true endgame mode that locks extremely difficult fights, PvE and PvP (and the highest rewards, higher than what we have now) behind some kind of roster requirement. Once you do that you can stop worrying about stuff like "4* players won't be able to beat lvl900 enemies anymore," because those players won't be fighting those enemies.

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@ViralCore said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@ViralCore said:
I agree that they should take chances and be quick about rebalancing. My problem is that they pick and chose. 1-character-infinites should not exist.

Toad’s rebalance is noticeably different and that’s a good thing. Unfortunately they refuse to do the same about Hawkeye. His purple cost should be bumped up and the amount of free ap should be reduced. It’s basically the same rebalance as toad.

You really gotta let the HE thing go, he's fine. At max level he has less than 100k health, he's fairly easily managed. And if there weren't supports that gave 6-12 AP to start he would barely be in any conversations.

Just because he's easy to kill doesn't mean he's fine. Again, NO level 166 should be able to single handedly be abe to take out 3 672s (no matter how long it takes). You do realize leveling systems is a thing right?

I will keep advocating for May and Hawkeye nerfs.

All this is just about taking PvP losses. The problem with these nerfs is they affect the rest of the game which is VASTLY more than L672 PvP (your PvP is probably less than a 1/10 of 1% of the game play in MPQ).

This is why I suggested a cool down system for PvP play to prevent HE and others from being able to winfinite 672 characters. That should satisfy you and EB and others while preserving those characters for PvE etc.

KGB

Why should PvP be treated differently than PvE though?

If small-roster players are using infinite guys to punch way up in PvE, I think that's a problem too. That suggests a problem with gating -- why are low level players being allowed into events that are much too difficult for them?

The game needs a true endgame mode that locks extremely difficult fights, PvE and PvP (and the highest rewards, higher than what we have now) behind some kind of roster requirement. Once you do that you can stop worrying about stuff like "4* players won't be able to beat lvl900 enemies anymore," because those players won't be fighting those enemies.

I agree for once. Put all the “competitive” players in an echo chamber and they can stop complaining about nerfs and not stomping anyone without a 10-year, $30,000 account.