mThor dillemma.

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  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 770 Critical Contributor

    @JoeHandle If i correctly inperpretiate, Goose supposedly is better cause she creates strike tiles and reduces incoming damage for herself which lead to faster killing Aunt May. With own OR added... it's even faster. Still, I personally will choose Francise over Tentacle Cats.

  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 1,231 Chairperson of the Boards

    The nicknames we come up with for the characters is nothing short of amazing. Tentacle Cats, well done.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @JoeHandle said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Yeah, I dunno. I can see how this would be a problem, but it's likely a problem that very few here have.

    Personally, I beat m'Thor by having all the boosted characters at 672 and all the best supports, and instantly murdering her turn0 before she has a chance to do anything. So "just build your roster" works, but... I'd say that's a bit of a long term solution.

    I bet many others in your position don't have this problem because m'Thor is their highest level character, they've got no desire to ever use anyone else, and she's pretty good in the mirror match.

    I do reject the idea that Electro is a decent counter, or the sort of counter they should be making. Electro is great against Omega Red, and pretty bad against literally anybody else. The problem there is that Omega Red is great against everybody except Electro -- in a game where resources are limited, why should I invest in a character who's useful in only one situation over a character who's useful in every situation?

    ... because it's an extremely common situation ... a SIMtuation, in particular!

    Why wouldn't you just mirror him or race him down, rather than bringing somebody who slows him down but brings basically nothing else to the table? Investing in Electro means you aren't investing in someone who can do either of those things.

    You do mirror him ... with Electro by his side. Take near zero damage.

    Electro is also a great partner for IM35, CapFA, Hotpool (kinda), and ... mThor :D ... anytime they are fighting any AoE, esp. repetitive, passive AoE.

    Goose actually does the same thing but better!

    Anyway I'd still rather load up on offense, especially in a pick-3 situation like Sim. Dragging Electro around means a dead slot (and yes, there are some guys that can do stuff with the yellow AP but then I'm bringing two guys I didn't want to bring).

    If so, then my copy of Goose is defective, very leaky. I better put in a ticket for a refund/replacement ...

    Wait what?

    Goose can't block the AoE damage for your other guys, but she's always in front and takes no damage. Also she passively drops a big pile of really strong strike tiles, that help you win the fight.

    The best way to fight Omega Red is just to race him down.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 770 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    Wait what?

    Goose can't block the AoE damage for your other guys, but she's always in front and takes no damage. Also she passively drops a big pile of really strong strike tiles, that help you win the fight.

    The best way to fight Omega Red is just to race him down.

    Always depends on roster. If someone has for example level 510 Electro vs 454 Goose... Usually there is always at least 2 ways to crack the egg.

    Let's back to the topic shall we? From general response I can see that majority consider mThor not a problem at all. Or at least not a problem worth dealing with. I, on contrare, am on the side of "she is too versitle" yet "don't nerf her cause of we don't know what devil will come after". I'd rather take doing nothing than risking worse.

    I wish some devs could give us insight on some stats. Maybe I am really biased or exaggerate? Like I'm just unlucky minority or whatever.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,531 Chairperson of the Boards

    Her AP generation and ability to cause cascades are definitely top tier. These two make her a frustrating character to fight against because none of us like to wait for our turn.

    Her blow up special tiles power means she can be a liability on your own team and makes her vulnerable to the likes of DP4 who can get her to help kill herself

    Her red and yellow hit hard but red rakes time to reach top gear and yellow is random and doesn't always kill who you want.

    Her charge tile creation is a double edged sword and can be used against her.

    I wouldn't say her health is overly high compared to newer 5*.

    She is Goddess of Thunder, she oughta be good!

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 720 Critical Contributor

    @Mr_F said:
    Let's back to the topic shall we?

    Nah, got laundry to fold, shopping to do, lasers to run ... :D

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    It's actually pretty funny. Normally I'll find these people on off teams -- all kinds of stuff. I'll start going in on them, hit a few times, they'll try to retaliate and lose, then switch to some m'Thor team and immediately win every single fight they do.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 770 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2024

    @entrailbucket
    That the type of stuff I'm talking about.

    Also which Yelena? The Good Avengers Widow or Bad Avengers Widow?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Mr_F said:
    @entrailbucket
    That the type of stuff I'm talking about.

    Also which Yelena? The Good Avengers Widow or Bad Avengers Widow?

    The 1*, ascended to 5* and fully maxed out (wearing a 5* Thanos Copter, with a 5* Eros Arrow and Leapfrog on the team as well).

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,531 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

  • WilliamK1983
    WilliamK1983 Posts: 1,231 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    It's actually pretty funny. Normally I'll find these people on off teams -- all kinds of stuff. I'll start going in on them, hit a few times, they'll try to retaliate and lose, then switch to some m'Thor team and immediately win every single fight they do.

    I will put myself into this category of player currently. Since champing everyone I've been trying my best to use the boosted characters for the events and not rely on old faithfuls as much. However, I am also trying for placement so I will relent to recoup any lost points. Also, a lot of my 5* are btwn 450 and 60 so when it comes time to climb, depending on the characters boosted, etc dictates what I do. My low lvl 5s can only hang for so long against 2 fully max boosted whoever with supports combos....forgettaboutit.

    Guess what I'm saying is your always chasing something and its nice to have a do everything to help speed it along if needed.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,531 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

    We all know that PvP favours the attacking player and punching up has been a thing all along. Jane is no worst than obnoxious stun lock teams and Polaris cheesing and it all nearly always gives an easy retal, I guess your problem is that YOU are the juicy retal if you are hitting low bar teams from above 1000. That then becomes an issue with the ELO scoring system but that is an entirely different thing.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2024

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

    We all know that PvP favours the attacking player and punching up has been a thing all along. Jane is no worst than obnoxious stun lock teams and Polaris cheesing and it all nearly always gives an easy retal, I guess your problem is that YOU are the juicy retal if you are hitting low bar teams from above 1000. That then becomes an issue with the ELO scoring system but that is an entirely different thing.

    Sure. Why doesn't anybody punch up with anything else?

    Rather, if PvP favors the attacking player, and m'Thor is no stronger, faster, or more reliable than any number of other "punch up" teams, why don't I ever see any of those teams?

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,531 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

    We all know that PvP favours the attacking player and punching up has been a thing all along. Jane is no worst than obnoxious stun lock teams and Polaris cheesing and it all nearly always gives an easy retal, I guess your problem is that YOU are the juicy retal if you are hitting low bar teams from above 1000. That then becomes an issue with the ELO scoring system but that is an entirely different thing.

    Sure. Why doesn't anybody punch up with anything else?

    Rather, if PvP favors the attacking player, and m'Thor is no stronger, faster, or more reliable than any number of other "punch up" teams, why don't I ever see any of those teams?

    Probably for the same reason as everything in this game? Players chase certain characters and get them as high as they can? Hence lots of Jane and Shang at super high levels.

    I get it now though and your issue is totally an ELO one - every time you hit somebody from above 1200 or more you are generally risking a massive retal loss points wise whereas the other player risks next to nothing in taking you on. I get that you should feel pretty invincible from a boosted 550 position so it must smart a LOT when that doesn't happen. I get it, I hate it when I get cheesed by some low mark team that would never beat me in a "live" fight but generally I don't risk the massive points loss you do when I revenge stomp coz I don't go that high. You don't play the co-operation game so you aren't getting a free and easy ride. Ok, I get it. I don't think nerfing Jane would solve this truth be told though.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,706 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

    I can beat absolutely any team with any supports in pvp without fail with my lvl 300 multiple man and 466 ascended coulson. So multiple man is 372 levels better than every other character in the game.

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 720 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    You lost FIFTY matches today???

    How many thousands of matches have you played since midnight ... ?

    Crazy stuff happens, but even targeting mThor teams, and usually running a similar team as you describe, I only lose 1-3 times per pvp, and I play 50-150 matches, and, if/when I wipe, it's almost aways to Polaris / mThor.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

    I can beat absolutely any team with any supports in pvp without fail with my lvl 300 multiple man and 466 ascended coulson. So multiple man is 372 levels better than every other character in the game.

    How long does it take? (a long time) How badly do you get murdered on defense? (very badly murdered)

    That's the difference.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Today in PvP I was running 672 Yelena/Juggernaut, with an optimized 5* support stack. Every single fight I lost (and I lost like 50 of them) was to 550 unboosted m'Thor/X. Generally it was her with either 1* or 4* Juggernaut, but there were a few Shang-Chis and some other odd partners.

    Hang on though you said you were losing to 450 teams?!?!? VERY big difference.

    Sometimes! Not today though.

    Anyway, assume I'm lying about that -- that means m'Thor is only about 120 levels better than every other character.

    We all know that PvP favours the attacking player and punching up has been a thing all along. Jane is no worst than obnoxious stun lock teams and Polaris cheesing and it all nearly always gives an easy retal, I guess your problem is that YOU are the juicy retal if you are hitting low bar teams from above 1000. That then becomes an issue with the ELO scoring system but that is an entirely different thing.

    Sure. Why doesn't anybody punch up with anything else?

    Rather, if PvP favors the attacking player, and m'Thor is no stronger, faster, or more reliable than any number of other "punch up" teams, why don't I ever see any of those teams?

    Probably for the same reason as everything in this game? Players chase certain characters and get them as high as they can? Hence lots of Jane and Shang at super high levels.

    I get it now though and your issue is totally an ELO one - every time you hit somebody from above 1200 or more you are generally risking a massive retal loss points wise whereas the other player risks next to nothing in taking you on. I get that you should feel pretty invincible from a boosted 550 position so it must smart a LOT when that doesn't happen. I get it, I hate it when I get cheesed by some low mark team that would never beat me in a "live" fight but generally I don't risk the massive points loss you do when I revenge stomp coz I don't go that high. You don't play the co-operation game so you aren't getting a free and easy ride. Ok, I get it. I don't think nerfing Jane would solve this truth be told though.

    I absolutely think it would, because she's exponentially stronger and faster on offense than any other character, not a total zero on defense, and enables a whole bunch of degenerate stuff. Who else would they be using?

    It'd also destroy a bunch of folks who've gone all in, which is my absolute favorite thing in this game.

    I don't care about being invincible. I don't even particularly want to be invincible -- that'd be boring. I want for my roster to mean something. I'll tip my hat to folks who can come up with an interesting way to beat me, and there are plenty of those ways.

    I'm tired of losing to button mashers who've never had an original idea, and literally cannot play the game without overpowered autopilot characters that play the game for them.

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